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 German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
 
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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 Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: badman]
#11361345 - 11/01/09 06:52 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
it supposely looked to much like a cube
That's because it was a cube.
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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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 LadyLittleZeppelin
Stoner
Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 1,505
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: Lucienis]
#11361443 - 11/01/09 07:27 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lucienis said:
Quote:
LadyLittleZeppelin said:
Excuse me Cloneufc but isn't there better things to do than cross mushrooms that has a almost 0% success rate?
Wow for someone with 7 posts you sure seem to know the value of science!
Why waste time with experiments that might contribute something to the field when we can do the same things everyone else has done a million times that we KNOW will work. Where's the pay off in that?
Jerk.
For someone with a whole 71 posts you really seem to know a bunch too 
It was hard enough to cross Penis Envy with PF Albino. What he is trying to do seems almost completely scientifically impossible 
Thus, it is a waste of his time.
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SHROOMS MAKE YOU GAY
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Crystal G said:
its cuzzzzzz i giiiiiive a meeeeean blooooowjjjobbbb.
Edited by LadyLittleZeppelin (11/01/09 07:31 AM)
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Cloneufc
Master Exploder!
Registered: 11/15/07
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: LadyLittleZeppelin]
#11362913 - 11/01/09 01:05 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Read here were RR crossed a Pancyan and cube. It was a cross, why would it magically be missing the veil? He also said the prints were viable.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9421501#9421501
THOSE WHO SAY ITS IMPOSSIBLE NEED TO STAY OUT OF THE WAY OF THOSE WHO ARE DOING IT.
Edited by Cloneufc (11/01/09 01:13 PM)
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badman
It begins again
Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 4,039
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: Cloneufc]
#11363540 - 11/01/09 02:46 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Im not saying its impossible but Im finding it VERY hard to believe, even more so when it says to offspring were fertile, someone should analyse the spores.
Where is this hybrid? There are no pics and its very easy to remove a veil from a cube when its breaking, and was the veil-less trait the only genetic trait passed down from the Pan genes, only one characteristic passed down... .
Way too bait IMO
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inski
Cortinariologist
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 2,558
Loc: New Zealand 
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: Cloneufc]
#11363710 - 11/01/09 03:18 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I will wait for the scientific paper that describes this successful cross and the results from the DNA or rDNA tests before congratulating Roger Rabbit, I hope he was successful, it would be an amazing achievement, good luck to everyone attempting these experiments!
I believe it's possible to cross different Psilocybe species and would like to see it done with proof to show the methods used!
Of particular interest to me would be the successful crossing of Weraroa novae-zelandiae with other Psilocybe species that are closely related like P. subaeruginosa.
inski.
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Cloneufc
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: inski]
#11368835 - 11/02/09 11:25 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Real mycologists like Doc holiday cross species all the time. For legal reasons they only cross edibles. You can clearly see the cross that RR had going. He's a standup guy and to confirm it really was a cross he is going to send it for genetic testing. Give the guy some credit, for one he's the first person I have heard of trying to cross an active species.
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troncotron
Stranger
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: Cloneufc]
#11370212 - 11/02/09 02:28 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why don´t you try isolating monokarions? i consider this technique much more convincing. I think the experiments using snake venom or nicotinic acid will throw different results than using monokarions (and less reproducible). With these products, you are assuming that two dikaryotic strains are exchanging exactly half part of their genome via recombination.. and that´s pretty much to assume, in my opinion. Moreover, each cell may exchange different quantities of DNA resulting something like a.. chimera¿?.It´s almost impossible to know what you have without using DNA testing. I think the only way to assure a real hybridization is by crossing monokarions (and is the method that researchers use for improving strains).
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badman
It begins again
Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 4,039
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: Cloneufc]
#11370260 - 11/02/09 02:35 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Theres nothing like cold hard data to prove this.
If someone is willing to post the data I'll believe it.
No data, no proof the harder you will find it to convince people that you are correct.
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LadyLittleZeppelin
Stoner
Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 1,505
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: badman]
#11372276 - 11/02/09 07:09 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
badman said:
Theres nothing like cold hard data to prove this.
If someone is willing to post the data I'll believe it.
No data, no proof the harder you will find it to convince people that you are correct.
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SHROOMS MAKE YOU GAY
~
Crystal G said:
its cuzzzzzz i giiiiiive a meeeeean blooooowjjjobbbb.
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LitCloset
hypochondriac
Registered: 04/01/09
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: LadyLittleZeppelin]
#11372447 - 11/02/09 07:26 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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i say if your having any succes aquiring the required materials, there is no harm at all in trying it out.
regardless of how hard it is, it also has a lot of luck involved. so do as many as you can, vary concentration etc and let us know about the results.
what are you using for a petri dish there? it looks like a jar, if it is i would advise getting some cheapo dishes.
it would not hurt at all to try this with some easier to do species (as well) for practice. try two cube "strains" like rr did.
hope you have results!
everyone else whos being negative, lets try to give some constructive advice instead.
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Cloneufc
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: LadyLittleZeppelin]
#11372614 - 11/02/09 07:48 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LadyLittleZeppelin said:
Quote:
Lucienis said:
Quote:
LadyLittleZeppelin said:
Excuse me Cloneufc but isn't there better things to do than cross mushrooms that has a almost 0% success rate?
Wow for someone with 7 posts you sure seem to know the value of science!
Why waste time with experiments that might contribute something to the field when we can do the same things everyone else has done a million times that we KNOW will work. Where's the pay off in that?
Jerk.
For someone with a whole 71 posts you really seem to know a bunch too
It was hard enough to cross Penis Envy with PF Albino. What he is trying to do seems almost completely scientifically impossible
Thus, it is a waste of his time.
How do you figure it was hard to cross Penis Envy and PF Albino?
All Psilocybe Cubensis strains will cross without the use of any chemicals. Its also not a true hybrid. A true hybrid is a species cross not a sub strain cross. Your a noob and have nothing to contribute here.
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LadyLittleZeppelin
Stoner
Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 1,505
Last seen: 13 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: Cloneufc]
#11373217 - 11/02/09 09:05 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've read up enough to know that what you're attempting to do is almost scientifical impossible. When you prove me wrong and show me the evidence than I will stand corrected 
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SHROOMS MAKE YOU GAY
~
Crystal G said:
its cuzzzzzz i giiiiiive a meeeeean blooooowjjjobbbb.
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troncotron
Stranger
Registered: 12/13/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Spain
Last seen: 4 days, 12 hours
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: LadyLittleZeppelin]
#11381999 - 11/04/09 06:18 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Who says it´s almost impossible? it´s possible to cross even two distinct genera through protoplast fussion, there are many examples free in the web. In this case, you are talking about crossing two distinct species of the same genera, i think IS possible but difficult to do at home. And also think the methodology is wrong. You want a 50/50 hybrid, not a weird chimeric specimen. My suggestion is to isolate lots of monokarions of each strain and confront all of them covering all possibilities. I say it´s difficult because it requires lot of time and money, you may have to isolate and test 100, 200 monokarions before reaching something interesting.. or maybe only 10, who knows..
Buy you have to work with monokarions!
Edited by troncotron (11/04/09 06:19 AM)
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Cloneufc
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: troncotron]
#11382901 - 11/04/09 10:00 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I know diluting spores on agar with a zigzag pattern can give you monokaryotic mycelium. You have to look for the first signs of germination with a microscope. I dont have a microscope. How can I do this without a microscope?
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Auxin
Stranger
Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 284
Loc: USA
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: troncotron]
#11383436 - 11/04/09 11:16 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
troncotron said:.... you are assuming that two dikaryotic strains are exchanging exactly half part of their genome via recombination.. and that�s pretty much to assume, in my opinion.... I think the only way to assure a real hybridization is by crossing monokarions (and is the method that researchers use for improving strains).
I find it odd that such an emphasis is on exact 50/50 crosses. I've done hybridizations before, in my case I was working with plants but I never had a percentage of genetic hybridization as my ultimate goal, I had the sharing of specific traits between two or more species or cultivars as my goal. Therefore, in the case of mushrooms, given that dikaryotic crosses seem to be much easier for the home hobbyist to achieve- why not do it that way to achieve a cross with at least some of the traits your after? You could always do another cross to refine it more or then move to a backcross of monokaryons to get the desired trait into a hybrid thats much closer to one species than another.
For example: say you have a small tasty mushroom you want bigger and you have a bigger less tasty mushroom you think might be able to hybridize. Do a series of dikaryotic crosses and grow out all resultant hybrids, select hybrids that are large and show significant expression of other traits from the small tasty mushroom, then use spores from those to do monokaryon backcrosses with the original small mushroom. Not all spore grown monokaryons will have your desired trait but some will. The results would be hybrids with at least 75% the DNA of the small tasty mushroom and a good chance of having the large-mushroom trait and less work because half the process was done the easier simpler way. Anyway, its more likely that after one or two generations of dikaryon crosses you'll be satisfied with the result enough to not bother with any more difficult breeding steps.
Doesnt that seem logical? I just dont get the 50/50 fetish lol
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inski
Cortinariologist
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 2,558
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: Cloneufc]
#11385869 - 11/04/09 04:14 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can dilute spore solutions down until there are very few in a solution, then it is a lot easier to isolate monokaryons, vacutainers are extremely useful for this type of work.
inski.
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Cloneufc
Master Exploder!
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: inski]
#11386716 - 11/04/09 06:04 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Without a Microscope I cant check for clamp connections. What kind of microscope will I need for checking monokaryotic mycelium?
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LadyLittleZeppelin
Stoner
Registered: 10/30/09
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: Cloneufc]
#11386837 - 11/04/09 06:20 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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*Edit
40x won't get it but 400 will, as the poster below me mentioned, and I found a site that sells those kind of microscopes.
http://fieldmicroscopes.com/0053000a.html
Fail or not it's worth a try I guess!
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SHROOMS MAKE YOU GAY
~
Crystal G said:
its cuzzzzzz i giiiiiive a meeeeean blooooowjjjobbbb.
Edited by LadyLittleZeppelin (11/04/09 07:00 PM)
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inski
Cortinariologist
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 2,558
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: Cloneufc]
#11387059 - 11/04/09 06:51 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I quite often view clamp connections using 400x magnification, I was able to clearly see the clamp connections and asexual conidia forming on the hyphae of the tissue culture I grew this Psilocybe species from!
inski.
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Cloneufc
Master Exploder!
Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 1,223
Loc: Las Vegas
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Re: Crossing P. Mexicana (sclerotia) and psilocybe cubensis! [Re: inski]
#11388581 - 11/04/09 11:17 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Im gonna have to buy one now. I'll probably get one with a usb camera on it so I can post pics. I will be looking for mycelium with the absence of clamp connections. So far the 20 petri dishes have failed using dikaryotic mycelium. They either grew over each other or created a barrier against one another.
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