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 Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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 Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11344648 - 10/29/09 10:24 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Government monopolizing the money supply is a statist reactionary viewpoint.
Not really.
Is government monopolizing the use of military force a statist viewpoint?
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Redstorm]
#11344684 - 10/29/09 10:30 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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It is reactionary because that is precisely what kings and emperors did.
It is statist because there is no good reason why government should have control of the money supply.
America came into being because of issues like monetary policy. Recall the link to Thomas Paine that I posted.
That is why I call those who support monopoly money "redcoats", as it is the most fitting historical example that comes to mind.
When government is the only entity that has weapons then yes it is statist. See Nazi Germany.
Pre-emptive strike doctrine is eerily similar to Hitler's blitzkrieg...
Fighting undeclared wars is certainly unconstitutional.
Armies are fine when they are only concerned with defense, not policing the world.
Edited by Mr.Al (10/29/09 10:36 AM)
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11344743 - 10/29/09 10:43 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Then why did the revolutionaries explicitly grant to ability to coin money only to the federal government?
That doesn't sound very Red Coat-ish to me?
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zappaisgod
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11345175 - 10/29/09 12:03 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
You need to get a clue.
I don't know about you but I haven't seen any counterfeit one ounce platinum or gold coins flooding the market.
That's because the fucking metal to make the coins cost the same as the denomination of the coin. What is wrong with you? The aren't wampum, they are a commodity. Holy fucking shit this is one of the all time stupid arguments. Next you'll be proposing that we must actually carry the bacon when we purchase hog belly futures. Quote:
You need to understand that when I talk about counterfeiting I am referring chiefly to "legal" counterfeiting.
Then why are being such a daft loon and whinging about coins being less counterfeitable than paper money?Quote:
The amount of counterfeiting that goes on illegally with paper or metal isn't even worth mentioning compared to legal counterfeiting.
Now we have a new Mr. Al definition for the O.E.D. I must alert the lexicographers.Quote:
It is about utilizing mediums of exchange that do not destroy the fruit of one's labor.
The medium of exchange is not the problem. Confiscatory taxes, insane government borrowing and wealth redistribution are. If you blame the medium of exchange you expose yourself as, well, a loon. Like Dr. Paul has on numerous occasions.Quote:
It is about asserting the truth that government is inferior to the individual.
Amen. So lets work on what is actually the problem, which is social engineering by government, and stop getting bogged down in a idiot's lament about paper currency.Quote:
http://rg.ancients.info/guide/counterfeits.html
W.T.F. I am not talking about old fucking coins that people collect. I am talking about precious metals used as a medium of exchange.
Those are precious metals.
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 Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 152,651
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck 
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Show me a tek on counterfeiting PMs.
coins are being counterfeited, it's fairly common in the antique coin
market, I've seen several at a friends pawn shop
http://rg.ancients.info/guide/counterfeits.html
True enough but I'm guessing he means large scale as opposed to select pieces.
consider the time it takes to produce the striking dies to counterfeit
any coinage, wouldnt it make more sense to mass produce, if platinum is
going for $1300/oz and the maples are selling for $1400, the profit
margin is much lower than with paper money but that's because of the raw
materials, it wouldnt taee much to sandwich a slug and increase that
margin, in all honesty, modern coins would be less suspect than the
antiques because dealers generally look for the fakes, they simply test
for precious metals on the modern ones... sometimes
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Prisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 152,651
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11347536 - 10/29/09 06:14 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Show me some evidence of convincing fake precious metals.
never heard of erzats coins?
http://www.canada.com/news/arrested+Maple+Leaf+coin+scam/2051789/story.html
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Prisoner#1]
#11350430 - 10/30/09 06:52 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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http://www.canada.com/news/arrested+Maple+Leaf+coin+scam/2051789/story.htm
but when the jeweller questioned the authenticity of the 99 other coins delivered by the pair, one of the suspects "pulled out a black handgun and demanded the cash,"
People catch on to ILLEGAL counterfeiting pretty quickly.
Again, the important thing to consider when comparing paper fiat with free market metal is that the LEGAL COUNTERFEITING OCCURS ON AN UNIMAGINABLY LARGER SCALE THAN THE ILLEGAL COUNTERFEITING.
I am talking about what actually causes systematic damage to a nation's economy. The government does not have the means to "print up" or otherwise create new precious metals.
Stable mediums of exchange would enable people to keep the fruit of their labor and their freedom.
Government paper accomplishes the exact opposite.
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Mr.Al
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Redstorm]
#11350435 - 10/30/09 06:55 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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There were not enough private mints to take care of that at the time. Today it is a different story in that regard.
Recall Jefferson: "Central banks are more dangerous than standing armies..."
http://www.phnet.fi/public/mamaa1/jefferson.htm
The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.
Every one of you that attempt to debate with me on sound money would do well to look at the above quote and our present day lives before you begin blabbering like a mindless mob again.
Edited by Mr.Al (10/30/09 07:11 AM)
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Mr.Al
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: zappaisgod]
#11350447 - 10/30/09 07:03 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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You don't understand that the ability for government to grow beyond it's means and thus need to tax the shit out of people is linked to their control of the money supply.
In an economy with competing mediums of exchange (no legal tender laws) government would not be able to inflate their fiat very much because competition would drive the worthless money out of the market. They would have serious difficulty instituting new taxes when the economy is using various competing mediums of exchanges  . It would be extremely difficult to tax the fuck out of people. You seem to want to make it easy for them and then complain about it .
What the fuck do you think causes economic cycles?!? It is the influx of new money. Of course the medium of exchange IS THE ISSUE WHEN THE GOVERNMENT HAS A MONOPOLY ON THE LEGAL TENDER.
You don't address legal tender because you would look like a fool.
There is no rational argument for government possessing
a monopoly on legal tender.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Loc: [life]now[/life]
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11350510 - 10/30/09 07:24 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
There were not enough private mints to take care of that at the time. Today it is a different story in that regard.
Then the Constitution should be amended. Otherwise, it is completely unconstitutional.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Redstorm]
#11350541 - 10/30/09 07:33 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
There were not enough private mints to take care of that at the time. Today it is a different story in that regard.
Then the Constitution should be amended. Otherwise, it is completely unconstitutional.
Congress and Woodrow Wilson (who was funded by the federal reserves founders) fucked up when they allowed the federal reserve to take over the money supply.
The money being used today is unconstitutional.
At this point the most realistic solution to this mess is for communities to come up with their own local mediums of exchange after the dollar's demise. Local communities would coordinate with each other to arrive at more widely accepted mediums-of-exchange.
Tobacco, alcohol, drugs, bullets, and precious metals could help local communities work things out after the crash...
The best thing about an economic meltdown is that I think it would mean people "losing faith" in government...
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whrsthespirit
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Bill might've been getting some head in his spare time and got caught. It seems to me though that he's done a far cry better than any of the other presidents in my 30 years. Judge him for his work not his immoral mistakes!!
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
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He still bombed the shit out of foreign countries and failed to kill Bin Laden when he had the chance.
None of his actions created real prosperity.
The housing boom made things look like we were doing well. It was not actually based on production.
I think every president since J.F.K. has been either knowingly or unknowingly (Id est: Reagan) a puppet.
He did not need to lie under oath. It is not a federal crime to commit adultery. That spineless wuss had the unmitigated audacity to say "I didn't inhale". He is a weasel.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11350888 - 10/30/09 09:04 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
At this point the most realistic solution to this mess is for communities to come up with their own local mediums of exchange after the dollar's demise.
Like I said, this is unconstitutional. A change would have to be made for it to pass muster.
Just because you think something is a good idea doesn't make it possible within the framework of the US governmental system.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11351067 - 10/30/09 09:46 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
You don't understand that the ability for government to grow beyond it's means and thus need to tax the shit out of people is linked to their control of the money supply.
Correct. I don't understand that because it is bullshit. They conduct their confiscations in the bold light of day without any need to resort to some backroom secretive currency manipulation. I'm not going to look it up again but I do believe inflation has been quite stable for over two decades. I have no problem with that. The problem with government is not their control of the value money supply. It is their control of too much money, period. They can control and confiscate gold lumps just as easily as electronic dollar records.Quote:
In an economy with competing mediums of exchange (no legal tender laws) government would not be able to inflate their fiat very much because competition would drive the worthless money out of the market. They would have serious difficulty instituting new taxes when the economy is using various competing mediums of exchanges . It would be extremely difficult to tax the fuck out of people. You seem to want to make it easy for them and then complain about it.
Because it isn't the form of the currency that is the problem, nor is it a problem with a lack of medium competition. If you want to buy bread with a pork belly, go ahead. Just how big would a gold penny be, anyway and how many could dance on the head of a pin? If the currency was some competing form how would that stop themn from confiscating it in taxes? Answer for tyros: It wouldn't. Not even a little bit. Irrelevant lunatic fringe whinging.Quote:
What the fuck do you think causes economic cycles?!? It is the influx of new money. Of course the medium of exchange IS THE ISSUE WHEN THE GOVERNMENT HAS A MONOPOLY ON THE LEGAL TENDER.
This again.  Business cycles have existed since long before there was a fed or government monopoly on the currency. That fact alone exposes your position as complete and utter nonsense.Quote:
You don't address legal tender because you would look like a fool.
I have addressed it and it is not I who looks like a fool.Quote:
There is no rational argument for government possessing
a monopoly on legal tender.
What other entity would you propose?
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Mr.Al
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Redstorm]
#11351075 - 10/30/09 09:48 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
At this point the most realistic solution to this mess is for communities to come up with their own local mediums of exchange after the dollar's demise.
Like I said, this is unconstitutional. A change would have to be made for it to pass muster.
Just because you think something is a good idea doesn't make it possible within the framework of the US governmental system.
In a hyperinflation scenario, I don't think anyone will give a fuck what the government tells them they should use for money.
Like I said before, the federal reserve monopoly money is unconstitutional and is what got us into this mess.
I'm just taking a look at how people solve the issue of indirect-exchange in an economy where the monopoly money has completely failed.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11351089 - 10/30/09 09:53 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
At this point the most realistic solution to this mess is for communities to come up with their own local mediums of exchange after the dollar's demise.
Like I said, this is unconstitutional. A change would have to be made for it to pass muster.
Just because you think something is a good idea doesn't make it possible within the framework of the US governmental system.
In a hyperinflation scenario, I don't think anyone will give a fuck what the government tells them they should use for money.
No? People kept using dollars in the seventies. Or wasn't that hyper enough for ya? Quote:
Like I said before, the federal reserve monopoly money is unconstitutional and is what got us into this mess.
You said it but it was wrong. I even directed your attention to the clause that says it is constitutional so stop with the bullshit already.Quote:
I'm just taking a look at how people solve the issue of indirect-exchange in an economy where the monopoly money has completely failed.
It hasn't failed.
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Mr.Al
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: zappaisgod]
#11351094 - 10/30/09 09:55 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Horseshit zap. Shenanigans like the "stimulus" would not be possible without monopoly money.
THERE IS NO FUCKING COMPETITION IN THE MEDIUM-OF-EXCHANGE BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT HAS A MONOPOLY ON LEGAL TENDER.
You fail to address this because you can not do so without looking like a fool. You have not addressed this. You do not have a rational argument for a monopoly on the money supply because it does not exist. Government cheerleader.
Business cycles existed before the federal reserve. Fractional reserve banking did too. Fractional reserve banking does increase the money supply and results in the business cycle. The central bank is what allows the fractional reserve system to be propped up to the point where the medium of exchange collapses.
I don't propose a fucking "entity" that controls the money supply you insufferable buffoon.
What part of "I support free market economics" do you not understand?
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: zappaisgod]
#11351103 - 10/30/09 09:57 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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It was the job of Congress to coin money.
That does not mean hand over the money supply to a central bank.
Government monopoly money has a long history of failure.
Edited by Mr.Al (10/30/09 09:58 AM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11351122 - 10/30/09 10:04 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Horseshit zap. Shenanigans like the "stimulus" would not be possible without monopoly money.
More bullshit. Why not? The currency could be horse turds and the government would still borrow it and take it. IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.Quote:
THERE IS NO FUCKING COMPETITION IN THE MEDIUM-OF-EXCHANGE BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT HAS A MONOPOLY ON LEGAL TENDER.
SO WHAT? Use fucking Euros, then, or pounds or yen. IT DOESN"T FUCKING MATTER.Quote:
You fail to address this because you can not do so without looking like a fool. You have not addressed this. You do not have a rational argument for a monopoly on the money supply because it does not exist. Government cheerleader.
I have addressed it several times. It doesn't matter what the medium of exchange is. They can spend it borrow and tax it NO MATTER WHAT IT IS.Quote:
Business cycles existed before the federal reserve. Fractional reserve banking did too. Fractional reserve banking does increase the money supply and results in the business cycle. The central bank is what allows the fractional reserve system to be propped up to the point where the medium of exchange collapses.
The medium of exchange hasn't collapsed. You have zero evidence to back your shit up, just parroted nonsense from a fringe nutcase. Business cycles existed before fractional reserve banking too.Quote:
I don't propose a fucking "entity" that controls the money supply you insufferable buffoon.
What part of "I support free market economics" do you not understand?
So what are you going to use for a medium of exchange and why do you think it is free from manipulation? You support nutcase economics. Even if you ended the government monopoly they would still tax, spend, borrow, manipulate. How about silver? Does the name Nelson Bunker Hunt ring a bell? What would make gold immune from that? How big is a gold penny?
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