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 Mycelio
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 Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: M8M]
#11236170 - 10/12/09 08:27 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oops, I didn't read your post carefully. Corn silage should be fine, at least for Pleurotus ostreatus, pulmonarius and eryngii, which are definitely able to adapt to the low PH. As corn straw by itself has a higher nitrogen content, compared to wheat straw and as there is also some grain included, yields on corn silage should be higher than on fermented straw. The drawbacks are slower colonization, which would require more spawn plus the need for much more oxygen, which makes it harder to grow in large bags or tubes.
Carsten
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blackout
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#11264285 - 10/17/09 06:12 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I just found an old grow log of mine here
I had soaked a small amount of grains, just 20g of wheat, for a full week fully submerged. But did rinse 4 times with boiling water. They were inoculated with LC so I am not sure if spores would have been killed (i.e. if antibacterial substances were created during the soak time). After the week they were microwaved for only 25mins. It did fruit.
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: blackout]
#11264417 - 10/17/09 07:34 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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That is interesting. So washing and microwaving the grain after the fermentation seems to make colonization much easier for cube mycelium.
Now two question come to mind. Would it also work with larger amounts of grain and how long would it stay clean without inoculation?
Carsten
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dstark
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#11264458 - 10/17/09 07:47 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycelio said:
That is interesting. So washing and microwaving the grain after the fermentation seems to make colonization much easier for cube mycelium.
Now two question come to mind. Would it also work with larger amounts of grain and how long would it stay clean without inoculation?
Carsten
Second that!
I have LC going on, i might try 
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blackout
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#11264689 - 10/17/09 08:55 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycelio said:So washing and microwaving the grain after the fermentation seems to make colonization much easier for cube mycelium.
That log was really a microwave experiment and testing if all endospores would have germinated and allowed for a single killing of them without a pressure cooker. I am not sure if the grain did ferment. I remember doing several long soaks of grain in fully submerged water. I do remember some beginning to bubble and I considered this a bad thing at the time. I was rinsing with boiling or very hot water to keep the smell down, or to keep it "fresh". I cannot remember if that small jar bubbled much or fermented at all.
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: blackout]
#11265358 - 10/17/09 11:20 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well, in your old grow log I found it 'did have a smell, sort of like fermenting', so there should have been some fermentation going on, though you might have kept it at a low level.
Carsten
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dstark
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#11274782 - 10/18/09 10:21 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey mycelio, I started this like 2 days ago and I have already signs of bacteria (bubbles etc.).
Short question: After a week or two when the pH drops and you can already put a piece of myc. inside (in my case it will be liquid-culture) what should i do with the extra water that in the jar? I mean you can't just put it in the jar that contains water with the grains... strain it?
Sorry if this question was already asked ^^
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ddreamer
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: dstark]
#11275622 - 10/19/09 02:58 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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maybe blackout isolated bad bacteria through the fermenting and readjusted the ph through the intensive rinsing and boling(in microw.).
sounds like something could come out of this.
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: dstark]
#11275767 - 10/19/09 05:21 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
dstark said:
Hey mycelio, I started this like 2 days ago and I have already signs of bacteria (bubbles etc.).
Short question: After a week or two when the pH drops and you can already put a piece of myc. inside (in my case it will be liquid-culture) what should i do with the extra water that in the jar? I mean you can't just put it in the jar that contains water with the grains... strain it?
Sorry if this question was already asked ^^
Just see my very first post in this thread, where I described the whole procedure and why inoculating with LC usually won't work.
Didn't you want to try washing, straining and microwaving it?
Carsten
Edited by Mycelio (10/19/09 05:28 AM)
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dstark
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#11275931 - 10/19/09 06:40 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycelio said:
Quote:
dstark said:
Hey mycelio, I started this like 2 days ago and I have already signs of bacteria (bubbles etc.).
Short question: After a week or two when the pH drops and you can already put a piece of myc. inside (in my case it will be liquid-culture) what should i do with the extra water that in the jar? I mean you can't just put it in the jar that contains water with the grains... strain it?
Sorry if this question was already asked ^^
Just see my very first post in this thread, where I described the whole procedure and why inoculating with LC usually won't work.
Didn't you want to try washing, straining and microwaving it?
Carsten
I will still try using LC- the only live myc. form i have now, soon will start petri dishes.
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: dstark]
#11276009 - 10/19/09 07:11 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well then I hope you have more luck. Please report whatever happens.
You'd have better chances if you first inoculate straw (pasteurized or fermented separately), cardboard or whatever you have and then layer the colonized material on top of the strained grain.
Carsten
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dstark
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#11276457 - 10/19/09 09:38 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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You say i can colonize cardboard using my LC and them transfer it yo the grains?! sounds nice.
Any recommendation of tek or recipe?
Sure i will report =]
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: dstark]
#11277065 - 10/19/09 11:32 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I only cloned them on moist corrugated cardboard, which had some sort of starch glue, never tried it with LC though. No recipe, not tek, just moisten it, tear off one of the outer layers and inoculate the corrugated part.
Carsten
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blackout
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: ddreamer]
#11277423 - 10/19/09 12:28 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycelio said:
Well, in your old grow log I found it 'did have a smell, sort of like fermenting', so there should have been some fermentation going on, though you might have kept it at a low level.
Yes! I missed that when I found the thread
Quote:
ddreamer said:
maybe blackout isolated bad bacteria through the fermenting and readjusted the ph through the intensive rinsing and boling(in microw.).
I can remember now it was not a bad smell it was fermenting (I used to brew beer and it was sort of similar, I have smelt too many "bad bacterias" for my liking!). I may still have adjusted the pH but it could have been lowered still. RogerRabbit recommends soaking in coffee which is low pH. Perhaps the myc just likes lower pH as mentioned, and the coffee would not have not have antibacterial properties which might fill off spores. I did inoculate with LC, not spores. But notice I really did bombard it with LC, which results in rapid growth. I microwaved the grain until it was bone dry, this is drier than dry grains, and it was LC rehydrating them, it must get sucked deep into the grains.
I was looking for alternatives to a PC, ideally this technique of just fermenting and not heating would work. But if not (for cubes anyway) it is certainly worth more testing of heating after fermentation. The key point to all my microwave experiments is calculating and controlling moisture levels.
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: blackout]
#11278482 - 10/19/09 03:28 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Didn't realize that you dried that grain completely. So you killed all the microbes, destroyed a few antibiotics, dried and rehydrated with LC. Pretty clever and promising!
Carsten
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dstark
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#11282689 - 10/20/09 07:48 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ok update:
the water above the grains became turbid and there is kind of a layer on the water which is yeast and i'm having hard time in removing it :/ the yeast smells not very good.
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: dstark]
#11283635 - 10/20/09 10:42 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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As long as the grain still produces bubbles, it should be OK.
Use a clean spoon and go on removing the yeast film from the surface every other day and add water if necessary, so the kernels won't be exposed to air. In general, open the lid only if absolutely necessary, you don't want much air exchange.
Carsten
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dstark
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: Mycelio]
#11288747 - 10/20/09 09:46 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have the lid slightly opened =]
Thanks mycelio.
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dstark
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: dstark]
#11288835 - 10/20/09 09:57 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just removed the film of yeast, doesnt smell good at all... but there is some sort of smell that reminds kind of fruits or something.
Pics for you mycelio.
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Mycelio
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Re: Grain spawn without pressure cooking [Re: dstark]
#11289418 - 10/20/09 11:21 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh, there's also a lot of yeast growing in the water. Probably caused by too much oxygen. You better rinse the grain, fill it into a much smaller container, add enough water to cover the kernels and close the lid. If it still smells bad after a few days, throw it away. The smell should be sour with a fruity note, like sourdough.
Carsten
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