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 Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 3,518
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 28 days, 4 hours
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 Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: crookedjunk]
#11275414 - 10/19/09 12:31 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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 Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 1,403
Last seen: 9 minutes, 25 seconds
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 Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11281365 - 10/19/09 10:36 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
There is no "free market" allowing businesses to be outsourced to China.
You are wrong.
So are you claiming that everything got outsourced to China BECAUSE of protectionism and tariffs? 
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
I mention trade protectionism and tariffs because China holds a large amount of U.S. debt.
If the U.S.D. is no longer the world reserve fiat they will call that debt in.
It's not in their best interest to do that. While we're talking about "what if's", what if we were on a gold standard and someone discovered a way to make gold from water? (don't aswer, it's a hypothetical question) You can "what if" all day about anything you want.
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Come on man, the Smoot-Hawley tariff act was a piece of legislation that precipitated world-wide trade protectionism.
Trade protectionism is something to look out for when forecasting world-wide economic events.
This was a major ingredient of the slide towards the Great Depression.
That ended in 1934. What relevance does it have today? Did we reinstate it?
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Ask yourself why Bernanke has been wrong for years... It's because he has a flawed understanding of history!
http://mises.org/story/3689
I ask myself why Austrians have been wrong for years on the collapse of the dollar. Actually, I know why; they don't understand Keynesianism.
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Mr.Al said:
In case you missed it:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/10/china-has-already-walked-away-from.html
Russia, China, and other major economic players have been putting together a currency basket. I can only conclude that they are backing away from holding dollars and U.S. debt instruments.
I didn't miss it. In fact, I pointed you to a thread on that very topic, which you failed to contribute to.
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Mr.Al said:
You did not give any real response to what would happen if dollars abroad flood the U.S. economy.
More "what if's". Our exports would go up substantially due to a cheaper dollar.
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Inflation is something that they have been indoctrinated, like yourself, to accept. Thus, they use inflationary monetary policy and accumulation of debt (to the degree that anyone with half a functioning brain would know that would not be possible without a monopoly on legal tender) to facilitate government expansion and spending.
Once again, it's very clear you're not reading any of my posts. I've said before I'm against deficit spending, unless the economy is in a recession. You seem to think I'm a champion of continuous Gov't deficit spending; I'm not. I'll say it again, because you missed it the first five times I said it: I AM AGAINST CONTINUOUS GOV'T DEFICIT SPENDING. Got it this time???
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Mr.Al said:
Government spending is less efficient than the private sector and thus any non-essential government spending makes the economy as a whole less productive.
I recommend you not attempt to debate that government spending is as efficient as the private sector.
I don't know what you mean that "government spending is less efficient than the private sector". Are you saying the Gov't isn't good at spending money???
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Massive government debt is mortgaging the future. It shows that our current prosperity is borrowed against that mortgaged future.
How do you suppose government will pay that debt?
Any way you cut it the people of America foot the bill.
I agree with this point, but I've already spoken out against deficit spending outside of a recession. CONSTANT DEFICIT SPENDING IS NOT A REQUIREMENT OF KEYNESIANISM. Got it???
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Mr.Al said:
Here's a graph comparing Government Debt obligation versus G.D.P.:
courtesy shadowstats.com
Yes, and I've already posted a reply to that graph:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Yes deficit spending has been going out of control since Reagan. But is our debt unsustainable? Here's a historical perspective with some good commentary in the link:
National Debt Graph
Now it's YOUR turn to reply to my post, not to repeat old material. Are you not smart enough to think for yourself???
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Mr.Al said:
Again, recall that the Keynesian system calls for central economic planners and central banks. They are the individuals who immorally bail out bankrupt corporations.
Explain your "logic" of supporting the system that bails out "too big to fail" and yet personally not support the "bail outs". You don't make sense.
I've said this about 10 times - Congress bails out bankrupt corporations. It's politics, and has NOTHING to do with Keynesianism. Please show me where Keynes said central banks are required to bail out failed businesses, or SHUT UP ABOUT THIS. You clearly know nothing about Keynesianism; neither did Mises.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
 
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 zorbman
Be Prepared
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,475
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Mr.Al said:
Quote:
If the U.S.D. is no longer the world reserve fiat they will call that debt in.
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
It's not in their best interest to do that.
It is also not in anyone's best interest to retain an asset which is continually falling in value. A conundrum indeed. (Or hot potato).
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
While we're talking about "what if's", what if we were on a gold standard and someone discovered a way to make gold from water? (don't aswer, it's a hypothetical question) You can "what if" all day about anything you want.
Are you actually contending that there is an equal likelihood that science will synthetically produce gold as the dollar will be abandoned as the global reserve currency? Because the former is the stuff of science fiction while we are increasingly hearing news reports of the latter nearly every week.
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Men occasionally stumble over the truth but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 1,403
Last seen: 9 minutes, 25 seconds
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: zorbman]
#11281897 - 10/20/09 12:22 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
Are you actually contending that there is an equal likelihood that science will synthetically produce gold as the dollar will be abandoned as the global reserve currency? Because the former is the stuff of science fiction while we are increasingly hearing news reports of the latter nearly every week.
Mr.Al was arguing against the fractional reserve system because of what could happen, but not what has happened. Murphy's law fallacy.
What if we were on the gold standard and the country went into a depression? Wait, I guess that's not a what could happen scenario. That's a what has happened scenario.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/20/09 12:38 AM)
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 3,518
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 28 days, 4 hours
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Recall that Hoover had instituted artificially high wages. He did not understand that high wages are caused by an increase in economic production. Remember the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930?
What we are seeing here is another example of big government getting involved in central economic planning.
F.D.R.:
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=258
I don't see how I am being illogical in talking about nations abandoning the dollar when they have obviously been at work putting together a currency basket to replace the world reserve fiat.
Quote:
I've said this about 10 times - Congress bails out bankrupt corporations. It's politics, and has NOTHING to do with Keynesianism. Please show me where Keynes said central banks are required to bail out failed businesses, or SHUT UP ABOUT THIS. You clearly know nothing about Keynesianism; neither did Mises.
Do you realize that central economic planners bailed out the banks and failed businesses? You have said yourself that you support increased government spending during economic downturns. Ben Bernanke is a self professed "keynesian". Is he abnormal in his views as compared to other keynesians?
Do you support the "federal" reserve's continued monopoly of the money supply?
If you do support the federal reserve it is nonsensical to complain about their actions.
If you do not like bailouts maybe you might want to reconsider your point of view of the idea of central economic planning.
Edited by Mr.Al (10/20/09 02:11 AM)
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 3,518
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 28 days, 4 hours
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This one thing is actually more important than this entire discussion. Since you did not know where I was coming from I will quote you and explain more clearly.
Quote:
I don't know what you mean that "government spending is less efficient than the private sector".
We have talked before about how the purpose of the medium of exchange is to increase economic efficiency. The need for profit is what drives increased production which occurs through a more efficient allocation of resources (usually technologically driven).
I'm pretty sure you don't disagree with that.
Now, government has no incentive to allocate resources more intelligently. Especially in our current system where they can borrow vast sums, print it up, or tax the fuck out of people. Recall that it is always easier to spend money that someone else owns.
Looking at collapsed nations like the U.S.S.R. it is not difficult to see how tremendously inefficient their economy was. I mean, they could produce, but when government controls where resources go (raw material, labor, and capital) we see shortages of key goods (Was it Cuba that had a toilet paper shortage recently?) and surplus production of things that are not needed.
I recall that you do not disagree with me that "there is no free lunch in economics. Perhaps this has a different meaning for you than it does for me.
Government growth comes at the expense of loss in production in the private sector because government allocates resources less efficiently than the private sector.
That is the key reason why any time government spends or grows beyond what is essential to it's job, we see a net loss in economic productivity.
An example of essential government services would be fire fighting. Fire departments cost money but the prevention of lost lives and massive property destruction is more than worth their cost.
Bailing out the auto industry is not an example of good spending. The reason is that an inefficient sector of the economy is being subsidized at the expense of the productive sectors. That is why the auto makers should go bankrupt when they are no longer able to produce efficiently.
I view things as a system and consider long term consequences to actions taken. The keynesian economics does not do this and that is why I reject it.
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crookedjunk
Ben of A&E's "Intervention"
Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 340
Loc: pittsburgh, pa
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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 Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11282463 - 10/20/09 06:07 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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man, that's some retarded propaganda. you crazy white farm boys scare too easy, just because a black man is your superior now.
And I ain't saying nothing wrong.
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crookedjunk
Ben of A&E's "Intervention"
Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 340
Loc: pittsburgh, pa
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11282476 - 10/20/09 06:11 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would like to ask why if I'm getting a warning in this thread, why zappaisgod isn't getting one too for delibertly using the word "niggardly". Yes, I know what it means. But I also know what it sounds like and how certain people like to fling it with that racist subtext in mind. Especially in conjunction of the fact that he knows my racial identity.
I say he deserves censure if I deserve it.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 20,721
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: crookedjunk]
#11282911 - 10/20/09 08:43 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I would like to ask why if I'm getting a warning in this thread, why zappaisgod isn't getting one too for delibertly using the word "niggardly".
If you truly know what it means, then you know the answer.
Quote:
I say he deserves censure if I deserve it.
Funny thing, what you say doesn't matter. Just because you want to see a racist subtext, doesn't mean everyone else has to join in on the road to illiteracy as well.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
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THC Titan
Spoonman
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
Loc: FL, USA
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Funny thing, what you say doesn't matter. Just because you want to see a racist subtext, doesn't mean everyone else has to join in on the road to illiteracy as well.
You don't think people can use non-racial words in a racist manner?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 20,721
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: THC Titan]
#11283409 - 10/20/09 10:05 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Read much?
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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A thin-skinned Mod that deletes rates of himself that he doesn't like.
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crookedjunk
Ben of A&E's "Intervention"
Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 340
Loc: pittsburgh, pa
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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what does that have to do with his response? If I'm getting penalized for petty crap, these people should be getting the same treatment as well, o watching moderators.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 152,651
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck 
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: crookedjunk]
#11283596 - 10/20/09 10:34 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
crookedjunk said:
man, that's some retarded propaganda. you crazy white farm boys scare too easy, just because a black man is your superior now.
Quote:
crookedjunk said:
I would like to ask why if I'm getting a warning in this thread, why zappaisgod isn't getting one too for delibertly using the word "niggardly". Yes, I know what it means. But I also know what it sounds like and how certain people like to fling it with that racist subtext in mind. Especially in conjunction of the fact that he knows my racial identity.
I say he deserves censure if I deserve it.
niggardly could have racial connotations, generally that would apply to
the jews as they're claimed to be niggardly, in the previously quoted
post of yours, it certainly sounds racist as you're claiming black men
are superior, it sounds to me that once again you want to play the
victim and this certainly isnt a support group
your warning was about trolling with crap that had nothing to do with the topic
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 152,651
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: THC Titan]
#11283609 - 10/20/09 10:36 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
THC Titan said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Funny thing, what you say doesn't matter. Just because you want to see a racist subtext, doesn't mean everyone else has to join in on the road to illiteracy as well.
You don't think people can use non-racial words in a racist manner?
I think people like to see things that arent there simply so they can play 'victim'
this has nothing to do with the subject, if you kids want a thread on
racism and the use o certain words, feel free to create one
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crookedjunk
Ben of A&E's "Intervention"
Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 340
Loc: pittsburgh, pa
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Prisoner#1]
#11283633 - 10/20/09 10:41 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
crookedjunk said:
man, that's some retarded propaganda. you crazy white farm boys scare too easy, just because a black man is your superior now.
Quote:
crookedjunk said:
I would like to ask why if I'm getting a warning in this thread, why zappaisgod isn't getting one too for delibertly using the word "niggardly". Yes, I know what it means. But I also know what it sounds like and how certain people like to fling it with that racist subtext in mind. Especially in conjunction of the fact that he knows my racial identity.
I say he deserves censure if I deserve it.
niggardly could have racial connotations, generally that would apply to
the jews as they're claimed to be niggardly, in the previously quoted
post of yours, it certainly sounds racist as you're claiming black men
are superior, it sounds to me that once again you want to play the
victim and this certainly isnt a support group
I didn't claim black men were superior, I just noted that as the president of the United States, a black man is their superior, in terms of social status and legal authority. You're getting a little too squeamish and wishy washy with what offends you for someone that's
modding a political forum.
Quote:
your warning was about trolling with crap that had nothing to do with the topic
I should hope you do the same to the others, for they do it far more flagrantly than I do. I should hope you consider your position beyond partisan games.
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crookedjunk
Ben of A&E's "Intervention"
Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 340
Loc: pittsburgh, pa
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: crookedjunk]
#11283648 - 10/20/09 10:44 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think this thread should be locked, because it's obviously nothing but something designed to provoke slander about the former two-term president.
 approves this message.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 152,651
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: crookedjunk]
#11283696 - 10/20/09 10:57 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
crookedjunk said:
I didn't claim black men were superior, I just noted that as the president of the United States, a black man is their superior, in terms of social status and legal authority.
so you're saying that dozens of white men are your superiors then, I see
myself as being equal, if you want to see superiors/inferiors, more
power to ya
Quote:
Quote:
your warning was about trolling with crap that had nothing to do with the topic
I should hope you do the same to the others, for they do it far more flagrantly than I do. I should hope you consider your position beyond partisan games.
most tend to stay on topic and arent trying to troll others with their
off topic posts, once again, this isnt the topic or even the discussion
being carried on in this thread, if you have some rant about racism or
what ever else, start one for that or find the appropriate forum
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crookedjunk
Ben of A&E's "Intervention"
Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 340
Loc: pittsburgh, pa
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Prisoner#1]
#11284828 - 10/20/09 01:54 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
crookedjunk said:
I didn't claim black men were superior, I just noted that as the president of the United States, a black man is their superior, in terms of social status and legal authority.
so you're saying that dozens of white men are your superiors then, I see
myself as being equal, if you want to see superiors/inferiors, more
power to ya
Note the qualifying phrase "in terms of social status and legal authority". Is there something wrong with your ability to comprehend
English? This is not meant as a flame, but is out of genuine concern.
Or is it really that hard for _you_ to accept the idea of a black man
being _your_ Commander-In-Chief?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 152,651
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: crookedjunk]
#11285660 - 10/20/09 03:47 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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what's so hard to understand in the thread title of 'bill clinton fucking
sucked' being that the subject is about clinton and clinton's policies,
this isnt an obama discussion or a discussion about racism
remember the warning you already have, 'trolling with off topic content'
you've yet to cease
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crookedjunk
Ben of A&E's "Intervention"
Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 340
Loc: pittsburgh, pa
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Prisoner#1]
#11285914 - 10/20/09 04:24 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
what's so hard to understand in the thread title of 'bill clinton fucking
sucked' being that the subject is about clinton and clinton's policies,
this isnt an obama discussion or a discussion about racism
remember the warning you already have, 'trolling with off topic content'
you've yet to cease
Okay, so when the argument goes towards your political bent you have no trouble seeing people go off-topic (i.e. this turning from clinton's policies to a general discussion of the pros and cons of deregulatation) but when somebody makes a valid point that refutes your definition of reality suddenly it's trolling?
There's quite a few good reasons why I try to generally avoid talking on this board, and the hypocrisy of your stance is only one of them.
I don't know how to engage you in debate without you trying to yellow flag me for things that you greenlight under other circumstances.
This is like trying to argue with Mussolini during his control of Italy, or the current Italian PM for that matter. Hard to argue with
someone who can control and manipulate the flow of debate and propaganda with no checks or balances to stop abuse of those powers.
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