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 Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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 Re: US support of Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#11357554 - 10/31/09 12:20 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just looking at the membership of the UNHRC is enough for a whole day's worth of lols.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 1,403
Last seen: 2 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#11358261 - 10/31/09 02:24 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
C'mon now. I'm sure you've heard of UN Resolution 181. Don't like the rocket attacks? Then tell Israel to quit settling on Arab land.
That might be of some relevance if the rocket attacks were coming from the West Bank. They are not, they are coming from the Gaza Strip, which the Israelis vacated and which is controlled by a completely different faction of Palestinian governance. Nice try, though.
That's like saying you would understand if the New York National Guard invaded Afghanistan, but the US military has no right to be there, since the 911 attacks were only against New York.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
As for the UN they have long ago been co-opted by the sheer number of Islamic members.
UN member nations by religious affiliation:
Islamic 57
Jewish 1
So you're saying human rights abuses are not a problem just because Israel thinks so? 
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 6 hours, 27 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
C'mon now. I'm sure you've heard of UN Resolution 181. Don't like the rocket attacks? Then tell Israel to quit settling on Arab land.
That might be of some relevance if the rocket attacks were coming from the West Bank. They are not, they are coming from the Gaza Strip, which the Israelis vacated and which is controlled by a completely different faction of Palestinian governance. Nice try, though.
That's like saying you would understand if the New York National Guard invaded Afghanistan, but the US military has no right to be there, since the 911 attacks were only against New York.
No. The two Palestinian areas are quite separate and controlled by completely separate entities. One of those areas has settlements but does not send rockets. The other area has no settlements and does send rockets. Keep wiggling.Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
As for the UN they have long ago been co-opted by the sheer number of Islamic members.
UN member nations by religious affiliation:
Islamic 57
Jewish 1
So you're saying human rights abuses are not a problem just because Israel thinks so?
No. I'm saying the UN has no credibility. Do you think settlements are human rights abuses? Do you drink this early in the day regularly?
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 EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,450
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Quote:
Just because they have more casualities means that their ideologies are right, and that they haven't done anything wrong? That makes no sense.
As such, I never said what you are accusing me of saying. What I said was that these backward fundamentalist ideologies are encouraged by foreign occupation & support of dictatorships. This is not only my opinion, but also the firsthand knowledge of every (moderate, striving for modernity & democracy) Muslim that I have talked to.
Quote:
Your really stuck on this one aren't you. Just because Brazil is not involved in the conflict doesn't mean that America started the conflict. It also does not immunize the Muslims for their side of the agression. So what's your point?
If your trying to say America throw the first stone, it probably has something to do with the fact that you are so stupid, you tried telling me that Muslim aggression toward western influence started in WW2 in one of you previous posts.
Can you chronicle for me Muslim militant attacks within America prior to WWII or prior to excessive U.S. meddling in their societies (which in Iran & Iraq included successfully subverting popular, secular governments that were seen as a threat to Western oil interests?)
Brazil is energy independent. If the U.S. had also pursued energy independence post-WWII instead of meddling in other peoples' affairs halfway around the world to obtain energy favorably, then the list of Muslim militant attacks within the U.S. would be the same length as it is for Brazil.
If you want to be backwards like a Muslim fundamentalist & start going back hundreds of years, then you are wasting your time. Both Muslims & Christians have historically committed atrocities & waged aggression against each other. Most Muslims couldn't care less about that now. They care about job security, housing, healthcare, better infrastructure, being able to pay bills, etc., like most people anywhere. Because the U.S., through the governments it supports, works against a majority of them in this area, that is the reason that some poor, disenfranchised people (youth especially) turn to the fundamentalists who still want to talk about the Crusades.
Because Brazil, for example, doesn't support these governments, not even backwards fundamentalists want to attack it, nor would they the U.S. if it would mind its own business like any true libertarian would advocate. Here is a libertarian website...
lewrockwell.com
... see if you can find on it any avocation of the big government imperialism & support for repressive governments abroad that you have repeatedly endorsed, & then tell me again how much of a libertarian you are.
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Every part of this country is sacred to my people. Every hillside, every valley, every plain and grove has been hallowed by some fond memory or some sad experience of my tribe.
Even the rocks... as they swelter in the sun along the silent seashore in solemn grandeur thrill with memories of past events... and the very dust under your feet responds more lovingly to our footsteps than to yours, because it is the ashes of our ancestors, and our bare feet are conscious of the sympathetic touch, for the soil is rich with the life of our kindred.
And when the last red man shall have perished from the earth and his memory among white men shall have become a myth, these shores shall swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe.
- Chief Seattle
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
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EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
As such, I never said what you are accusing me of saying. What I said was that these backward fundamentalist ideologies are encouraged by foreign occupation & support of dictatorships. This is not only my opinion, but also the firsthand knowledge of every (moderate, striving for modernity & democracy) Muslim that I have talked to.
I just got your rebuttle. Where do you live that you have contact with a large community of Muslims who support moderate democracy?
I just so happens that I have been to many places in the world to even list here because of my military service, and I have not witnessed the same moderation. It's easy for you to just make this claim, but to back it up with historical facts, or facts on the ground in current Muslim countries is impossible. I have been in their countries. I know what it's like there. I have seen first hand that this tolerance, and moderation you speak of is a lie. Look at the official government stances of these muslims regimes before you come and argue with people about their "Moderation" next time.
Tell me that the maority of Muslim controlled governments in this world we live in support religious freedom. Tell me that Muslim controlled governments allow freedom of speach. Tell me that the majority of Mulim countries in this world do not have an extremely high number of fanatic religious fundamentalist who supress religious freedom through violent action.
Tell me all those things, and I will call you a liar. Not only will I call you liar, I will back it up with facts. History, and current events show indisputably that the moderation that your talking about doesn't exist.
Now let's look at the West (The United States, and our allies. Nato). I fought along side people of all different ethnicities, of all different religions, of many different Nationalities. I fought next to black men, and whites, hispanics, and women. We were all paid the same, and givin the same oppurtunities. Although I didn't fight along side any arabs, and only one muslim ever(big suprise huh). We have Mosques on our land. I'm a third generation American of Mexican, and Italian descent. I have a Hispanic last name, and this country made me richer then I could have ever imagined. They paid for my college, gave me a career, they don't persecute me for my religious relief. My children will grow up knowing that everyone has the right to believe in, and worship a higher power however they see fit. Again I'm hispanic, I live in America, and I'm rich. So much for your view of America being racist huh? Oh yea, and we have a black president don't we? Yea that's right we do!!
Again, let's look at muslim countries. Women supressed, Gays persecuted, no liquor, no bacon, no religious freedom. If you have proof that this is wrong, and I'm telling lies then prove it. So much for your moderate view of Islam.
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
Can you chronicle for me Muslim militant attacks within America prior to WWII or prior to excessive U.S. meddling in their societies (which in Iran & Iraq included successfully subverting popular, secular governments that were seen as a threat to Western oil interests?)
I know all about our evil doings in Iraq, and Iran that happened before I was even born, but what is your point? It's not like this all started at that time. Also, are you sure that there was a popular secular governments in Iraq before? Can you prove it?
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
Brazil is energy independent. If the U.S. had also pursued energy independence post-WWII instead of meddling in other peoples' affairs halfway around the world to obtain energy favorably, then the list of Muslim militant attacks within the U.S. would be the same length as it is for Brazil.
I take it your Brazilian then? If your not you should move there. Islamic extremist across the bored have Ideoligical differences with the west that are as instumental, if not more, to the current conflict then oil. You are trying to make this all about oil. That's not true. Oil plays a role no doubt, but it's not the only aspect of this conflict
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
If you want to be backwards like a Muslim fundamentalist & start going back hundreds of years, then you are wasting your time. Both Muslims & Christians have historically committed
Edited by Simplicitry (11/07/09 08:01 AM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 6 hours, 27 minutes
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Lew Rockwell is an anti-semitic punk. Always has been.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#11385254 - 11/04/09 02:56 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Here in America I'm a rich hispanic that served with a multi ethnic, multi religous military force. Not so racist really?
Islam does not allow the same freedom. If I'm lying prove it!
I'm not sure why you're comparing a country to a religion. Not exactly apples to apples.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 6 hours, 27 minutes
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Redstorm]
#11385283 - 11/04/09 03:00 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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That wasn't me.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 6 months, 12 days
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#11385290 - 11/04/09 03:00 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sorry about that. Usually I'm pretty good with the quick reply.
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strain666
dulcetdkay
Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 864
Loc: Gulf Coast US
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Shins]
#11387394 - 11/04/09 07:28 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Simplicitry said:
I support U.S. alliance with Israel. Islamic Fascist don't respect my way of life, and I guess the way I see it the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Make any sense, or do you completely disagree.
Oh yea, and if you think that the terrorist, and Hamas, and Hezbollah will just put there guns down, and hug the U.S. if we change our policy toward Israel then I have to disagree with you.
do you really know that "Islamic Fascist don't respect my way of life?" Or do you believe that because it's what's repeated most often in the media?
you don't think that the discontent Arab extremists have has anything to do with the USA's part in world war one and two, and the re-creation of Israel?
If the USA stopped supporting Israel and took a negative approach to it i GUARANTEE a lot of "terrorists" would rejoice the US. though of course it won't erase the past.
on the topic of "Islamic Fascist don't respect my way of life" I'd like to point out here that the USA is largely christian, and as such follows the teachings of Jesus. Muslims accept Jesus as well as other people "of the book" including Jews.
Jewish scripture on the other hand, condemns non-Jews (gentiles) to be of lower racial status, and worth less than a Jew, and that it's okay to abuse non-Jews.
The Jews also had Jesus killed.
why does a supposedly christian nation support another nation who believes Jesus was shit, and a nation who supports the ones who had him killed?
This is an interesting question. I have a similar one:
Why is there a police department near San Antonio, TX that has a six pointed star on the face of their building? I was under the impression that both Texas and US had a 5 pointed star. The world may never know!!
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Support gene pool cleanliness;
end it.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Redstorm]
#11387453 - 11/04/09 07:33 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
Here in America I'm a rich hispanic that served with a multi ethnic, multi religous military force. Not so racist really?
Islam does not allow the same freedom. If I'm lying prove it!
I'm not sure why you're comparing a country to a religion. Not exactly apples to apples.
Most of the regimes that are in discussion are theocratic. Therefore Islam is not just the religion of my enemy it is also the Government
Also on a similiar note. You said to this to me earlier.
Quote:
Redstorm said:
I hope you fought in Afghanistan and not Iraq. Otherwise, this statement makes no sense.
I actually fought on both fronts, and I disagree with your above statment. These fundamentalist are funded from, and operate in many Muslim countries, in this way the hatred of my enemy toward my culture transends the borders of their countries. This is not conventional warfare. The enemy doesn't have a specific country, or a flag that they fight under, so in my opinioin it's all fair game.
America shouldn't have started Nation building over there. We should have bombed Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Afganistan, and then went on about our business. Not one American boot should have touch down in these countries. We should have leveled their cities, and went on about our business until the next time these regimes needed a reminder.
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 5,772
Last seen: 12 days, 4 hours
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I think that if the USA had never helped Britain and France during WW1 and thereafter little of the Muslim hate towards it would exist today.
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Truth - Love - Courage
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 5,772
Last seen: 12 days, 4 hours
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Shins]
#11391715 - 11/05/09 02:24 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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120 years after the revolutionary war the US goes soft and Britain/France drags it back into a whole mess of shit.
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Truth - Love - Courage
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 5,772
Last seen: 12 days, 4 hours
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Shins]
#11391869 - 11/05/09 02:51 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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If the USA never helped in ww1, Hitler would likely have not happened either.
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Truth - Love - Courage
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Chespirito
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,223
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Shins]
#11392180 - 11/05/09 03:39 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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And if the world had only just let Hitler take it over than WW2 never would have happened 
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
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EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
Both Muslims & Christians have historically committed atrocities & waged aggression against each other. Most Muslims couldn't care less about that now. They care about job security, housing, healthcare, better infrastructure, being able to pay bills, etc., like most people anywhere. Because the U.S., through the governments it supports, works against a majority of them in this area, that is the reason that some poor, disenfranchised people (youth especially) turn to the fundamentalists who still want to talk about the Crusades.
I'm sorry but actions from Islam just don't support this conclusion that you've made. The Facts support something quite different.
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
Because Brazil, for example, doesn't support these governments, not even backwards fundamentalists want to attack it, nor would they the U.S. if it would mind its own business like any true libertarian would advocate. Here is a libertarian website...
lewrockwell.com
... see if you can find on it any avocation of the big government imperialism & support for repressive governments abroad that you have repeatedly endorsed, & then tell me again how much of a libertarian you are.
Just because Brazil has nothing to do with this conflict doesn't mean anything. This has been you most adamant arguement, but the only problem is it's not relevant to the conversation.
"The Muslims weren't in the wrong in Bosnia Herzegovena"
"Why?"
"Because they weren't bombing the Brazilians."
That is about how relevant your most adament arguement (not your best arguement, but the one that you've stressed the most) is to the conversation we are having.
Yes I admit that Brazil has nothing to do with what were talking about, but what is the point.
It would be like me saying that America is not in the wrong in our dipute with the Arabs because we are not bombing Brazil. I would never make such a stupid arguement becaus Brazil has nothing to with it.
Hell I could make a long list of countries that the U.S. isn't bombing, but again the only problem is that it wouldn't have anything to do with the subject we are discussing. I could even make you a long list of countries that the U.S. is not only not hostile toward, but that we protect, or make alot of money for, but again the only problem is that it has noting to do with Arab/Western Conflict.
And I am very much a Libritarian. The people that I've killed in this conflict had it coming. I was minding my own business until my hand was forced by the death of my country men.
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 798
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Chespirito]
#11392490 - 11/05/09 04:24 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
I think that if the USA had never helped Britain and France during WW1 and thereafter little of the Muslim hate towards it would exist today.
Quote:
Shins said:
If the USA never helped in ww1, Hitler would likely have not happened either.
Quote:
Chespirito said:
And if the world had only just let Hitler take it over than WW2 never would have happened
We get it, your an anti-American, anti-Semite who wants to blame the U.S. for everything that's going on the world.
You saying that you think the muslim world would not be hostile if we wouldn't have helped Britian, and France during WW1 changes exactly what about the current situation?
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
Edited by Simplicitry (11/05/09 04:27 PM)
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 5,772
Last seen: 12 days, 4 hours
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it changes nothing about today anyways, but i believe; like in the twelve step program for recovery, that the first step is admitting your own mistakes.
before you call me anti-semite, realize that most jews are converts and aren't actually semitic. i'm just about as anti-muslim and anti-christian as i am anti-semite.
might as well just call me anti-Abrahamic, it's a consequence of being pro-science.
as far as anti-american, i like the founding ideas of america, but i'm not really pleased with what it is becoming.
If we hadn't helped Britain, France Israel etc. i think that Muslims would have less reason to attack. a big part of muslum hate towards america is in how it supported those countries and their intrusion through the last century+, and how it has used to situation to for example; exploit oil reserves.
both sides are wrong.
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Truth - Love - Courage
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 5,772
Last seen: 12 days, 4 hours
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it changes nothing about today anyways, but i believe; like in the twelve step program for recovery, that the first step is admitting your own mistakes.
before you call me anti-semite, realize that most jews are converts and aren't actually semitic. i'm just about as anti-muslim and anti-christian as i am anti-semite.
might as well just call me anti-Abrahamic, it's a consequence of being pro-science.
as far as anti-american, i like the founding ideas of america, but i'm not really pleased with what it is becoming.
If we hadn't helped Britain, France Israel etc. i think that Muslims would have less reason to attack. a big part of muslum hate towards america is in how it supported those countries and their intrusion through the last century+, and how it has used to situation to for example; exploit oil reserves.
both sides are wrong.
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Truth - Love - Courage
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 6 hours, 27 minutes
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Re: US support of Israel [Re: Shins]
#11398837 - 11/06/09 01:41 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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We buy the oil from the morons. You might as well say they exploit our money reserves. It would be equally stupid.
Most Jews are converts? Link?
There is no reason to believe that assisting the Shah to overthrow the soviet puppet was a mistake. There is plenty of reason to believe that failing to respond with the appropriate eradication of the mullahs after their invasion of the US was.
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