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CaptainCrunch
Contrary ToPopular Belief
Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 934
Loc: Somwhere Over the rainbow
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Need help possible mushroom poisoning!
#11237206 - 10/13/09 12:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok so my friend john picked a bunch of mushrooms he wanted to eat them, he knows i have a fairly knowledgeable backround, so i said i would help him identify them.. well i was pretty sure all were panaeolus they where growing in horse manure they had a grayish look the the caps and reddish long stems, on of the spore prints was black.. i told them i did not not know if they where cincts and they blended them up and put them in lemon juice and drank them, altogether it was about 15-20 mushrooms split between two.. its been an hour later and my sister says shes not feeling great but not bad either and that she needs to go to sleep.. at this point I'm worried! I'm questioning myself, I'm thinking i should have stopped them.. anyway what are the signs of mushroom toxicity and how many deadly look alikes grow in and around horse manure with that description!
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,358
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: CaptainCrunch]
#11237227 - 10/13/09 12:34 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sounds like Panaeolus papilionaceus, which is nontoxic.
There aren't many deadly mushrooms that grow directly from horse manure.
It would help if you had pictures of the mushrooms.
There are no toxic mushrooms with a black spore print.
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Twiztidsage
Fungal Databaser
Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 8,089
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: CaptainCrunch]
#11237233 - 10/13/09 12:36 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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There shouldn't be anything deadly in the poo.
Keep your eyes peeled for any symptoms of sickness. Do you have any fresh specimens left?
They could be useful at the hospitol provided anyone does get sick....
Most likely everyone will be fine, maybe some stomach cramps or upsets, but that can happen with any raw mushroom.
good luck and keep us posted.
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: CaptainCrunch]
#11237234 - 10/13/09 12:36 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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You don't need to be too worried. If the spore print was black then there is a 0% chance of them being poisonous. I also know of no dangerously poisonous mushroom that grows from horse manure, especially not one that fits your description.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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Magick
Thinker
Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 846
Last seen: 6 years, 3 days
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: German Kahuna]
#11237710 - 10/13/09 03:38 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wouldn't say '0%' now ..
But yeh it sounds pretty unlikely to me as well. Keep some fresh specimens, try your best to ID the said mushrooms, and if anybody experiences any illness within the next 12-36 hours it may be advisable to go to a hospital.
Stay safe, know what you're putting in your body! Next time it might be a patch of galerinas or amanitas you swallow and then there ain't no comin back.
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Magick]
#11237723 - 10/13/09 03:46 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Which mushroom with a black spore print do you consider to be dangerously poisonous?
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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SuchSmartMonkeys
mycologically driven individual
Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 1,154
Last seen: 3 years, 30 days
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: CaptainCrunch]
#11237726 - 10/13/09 03:48 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CaptainCrunch said: they blended them up and put them in lemon juice and drank them, altogether it was about 15-20 mushrooms split between two.. its been an hour later and my sister says shes not feeling great but not bad either and that she needs to go to sleep.. at this point I'm worried! I'm questioning myself, I'm thinking i should have stopped them.. anyway what are the signs of mushroom toxicity and how many deadly look alikes grow in and around horse manure with that description!
Depending on if they're fresh or dried, how potent and how many i've taken (and how much is in my stomach before taking), i ALWAYS start to feel not great, but not quite bad (almost, a little anxious for sure), and feel very sleepy starting about 30-90 minutes after ingestion of psilocybin containing mushrooms... about 30 minutes after that feeling sets in, i always feel great...
-------------------- [url=http:
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Those were not active mushrooms, so that feeling might result from them ingesting mildly poisonous mushrooms or it is a placebo effect caused by anxiety. If CaptainCrunch's report can be trusted (which I assume) then I am willing to bet my testicles that it is nothing to worry about.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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Magick
Thinker
Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 846
Last seen: 6 years, 3 days
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: German Kahuna]
#11237811 - 10/13/09 05:09 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
German Kahuna said: Which mushroom with a black spore print do you consider to be dangerously poisonous?
Not saying I know of one, I'm just sayin it's theoretically possible. There are other things though that people should take into consideration other than 'just' a sporeprint when ID'ing shrooms.
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MUSH HEAD420
Kush Commander
Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 921
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Magick]
#11238199 - 10/13/09 08:21 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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indeed magic .... BTW has EVERY SINGLE POOP DWELLING mushroom been found yet? I do not think so ..... and has every black spored mushroom been discoverd .... Not that im aware of .... and arent most fungis edibility unknown? YES ... and last ... could his friend have maybe found them growing out of a dead piece of wood next to a pile of dung? POSSIBLE
My point is to prove a point here ... I think ..
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bigboi86
Overclocker
Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 1,267
Loc: South East
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
#11238296 - 10/13/09 08:53 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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You guys are arguing with experts.
I just thought I'd let you know that.
-------------------- Anybody want to buy my shirt?
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LuckOfTheFryish
Hi! I'm Fry!
Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 2,362
Loc: PNW Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: MUSH HEAD420]
#11238342 - 10/13/09 09:09 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
German Kahuna said: Which mushroom with a black spore print do you consider to be dangerously poisonous?
too many pan. subbs. could be deadly...=P probably have to be alot tho just sayin its possible to OD on em. annnnd....
Quote:
MUSH HEAD420 said: indeed magic .... BTW has EVERY SINGLE POOP DWELLING mushroom been found yet? I do not think so ..... and has every black spored mushroom been discoverd .... Not that im aware of ....
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are you aware that every black spored mushroom has not been discovered? no. youre playing with a double edged blade.
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Bretdaniel
Heavy Vibes
Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 11,083
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I don't think you can really OD on Pan Subbs... and since when do Galerena's grow from poop?
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ehtdaedlufetarg
Toadstool Taxonomy
Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 2,076
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Bretdaniel]
#11238743 - 10/13/09 10:54 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Best of Luck Captain.
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: German Kahuna]
#11238830 - 10/13/09 11:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
German Kahuna said: Which mushroom with a black spore print do you consider to be dangerously poisonous?
tripplers bane if their alcoholics?
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: hidenseek]
#11238849 - 10/13/09 11:20 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't consider that dangerous. Unpleasant, yes. But not dangerous.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,358
Last seen: 7 days, 12 hours
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Magick]
#11238970 - 10/13/09 11:43 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Not saying I know of one, I'm just sayin it's theoretically possible.
Not really. The black spored genera are pretty harmless.
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CaptainCrunch
Contrary ToPopular Belief
Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 934
Loc: Somwhere Over the rainbow
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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alright thank you guys so much for your consideration, yes everybody is fine today.. also i do believe they where pan paps they had a teeth like ring around the bottom of the cap, they where almost metallic looking on the outside, the younger specimens where brownish with grayish gills and a egg or dome like cap before opening up.. they where growing out of horse manure, and there gills were all gray, but not all of them were printed, and that exactly what i told them.. i think everybody will be alright but it just scared me, because i would never ingest anything without 100% id...
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Twiztidsage
Fungal Databaser
Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 8,089
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
Not saying I know of one, I'm just sayin it's theoretically possible.
Not really. The black spored genera are pretty harmless.
I'll bet there are over 25,000 (random number) unidentified mushrooms with black sprores.
It is theoretically possible one can make people sick. Don't get me wrong, I am sure that black spores mushrooms are safe for now.
Just remember people used to think many different genera were safe. Leccinum for example? Agaricus?
I am sure there aren't any, but to say something "isn't really" theoretically possible is a bit silly....
And what do you mean by "pretty harmless"?
The experts here are VERY well educated, but not one mycologist knows every mushroom. Again, I am not trying to argue, just saying that it is possible.
Much love TI's, I know you know your shit!
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,358
Last seen: 7 days, 12 hours
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Twiztidsage]
#11239464 - 10/13/09 01:13 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is not required to know every mushroom to make inferences about the genera that have black spores. Some genera are full of toxic species, others lack them. The black spored genera seem to lack them.
We are talking about the Psathyrellaceae, Gomphidiaceae and a small part of the Agaricaceae here. Its not like there are toxic black spored species lurking about, just waiting to get discovered.
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CaptainCrunch
Contrary ToPopular Belief
Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 934
Loc: Somwhere Over the rainbow
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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so.... my sister comes home, i ask her how shes feeling, she says,"fine" i say,"did you throw up?" she says,"no but i triped all night long",she told me she tripped until 5:30 and finally passed out.. so now this confuses the whole thing.. i am questioning her abitily to know when shes tripping but on the other hand why was she up until 5:30 this only further confuses what they actually eat lol
Edited by CaptainCrunch (10/13/09 01:19 PM)
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: CaptainCrunch]
#11239528 - 10/13/09 01:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Plagued by all sorts of diseases but can't afford real medication? Start using Placebo(R) today!
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: CaptainCrunch]
#11239536 - 10/13/09 01:30 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ask her if she smoked or drank or if she was overly excited to have the experience.
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Twiztidsage
Fungal Databaser
Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 8,089
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: It is not required to know every mushroom to make inferences about the genera that have black spores. Some genera are full of toxic species, others lack them. The black spored genera seem to lack them.
We are talking about the Psathyrellaceae, Gomphidiaceae and a small part of the Agaricaceae here. Its not like there are toxic black spored species lurking about, just waiting to get discovered.
Sounds to me like you are saying it is theoretically possible.
"Seem to lack them" sounds like theoretically possible.
"pretty harmless" sounds like theoretically possible.
How can you say that there aren't any black spored toxic species waiting to be discovered? There are so many unknowns in mycology, and you should know that better than I.
Do you know what theoretically possible means?
Open your mind up a bit.
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CaptainCrunch
Contrary ToPopular Belief
Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 934
Loc: Somwhere Over the rainbow
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Twiztidsage]
#11239577 - 10/13/09 01:39 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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German Kahuna i agree with you 100% they could not have tripped.. I'm hoping ill find some active mushrooms and i know we're looking in the right place, but i don't want to feel responsible for a choice that they make.. you Trusted Identifiers probably can relate.. thank you so much this community really dose care..
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CaptainCrunch
Contrary ToPopular Belief
Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 934
Loc: Somwhere Over the rainbow
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Twiztidsage]
#11239587 - 10/13/09 01:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Twiztidsage said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: It is not required to know every mushroom to make inferences about the genera that have black spores. Some genera are full of toxic species, others lack them. The black spored genera seem to lack them.
We are talking about the Psathyrellaceae, Gomphidiaceae and a small part of the Agaricaceae here. Its not like there are toxic black spored species lurking about, just waiting to get discovered.
Sounds to me like you are saying it is theoretically possible.
"Seem to lack them" sounds like theoretically possible.
"pretty harmless" sounds like theoretically possible.
How can you say that there aren't any black spored toxic species waiting to be discovered? There are so many unknowns in mycology, and you should know that better than I.
Do you know what theoretically possible means?
Open your mind up a bit.
the problem is when adressing mushroom poisoning where not looking for an open minded conversation were looking for facts. plain and simple.
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Twiztidsage]
#11239603 - 10/13/09 01:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's also theoretically possible that an ancient alien species lives in caves deep underneath Antarctica, waiting to be led into battle against humanity by Krusty the clown. Theoretically. From a scientific point of view it the way Alan put it was correct. There is no proof that there aren't any undiscovered poisonous mushrooms with a black spore print. But after every black spored mushroom that has so far been discovered was non-poisonous, empiric observation allows us to assume that this is a general rule.
Quote:
the problem is when adressing mushroom poisoning where not looking for an open minded conversation were looking for facts. plain and simple.
Very nicely put, Sir.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
Edited by German Kahuna (10/13/09 01:44 PM)
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CaptainCrunch
Contrary ToPopular Belief
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Posts: 934
Loc: Somwhere Over the rainbow
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: World Spirit]
#11239634 - 10/13/09 01:51 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
World Spirit said: Ask her if she smoked or drank or if she was overly excited to have the experience.
also she did smoke weed and did seem very anxious about tripping again for the third time lol
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Twiztidsage
Fungal Databaser
Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 8,089
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: German Kahuna]
#11239665 - 10/13/09 01:54 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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So what does "pretty harmless" mean? That some may make you sick?
Thats not a very scientific term.
Science is not about assumption.
Correct, science is about facts. "Black spored mushrooms cannot make you sick" is not a fact.
I apologize for arguing, but it just seemed silly to me.
Much fungal love....
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Twiztidsage]
#11239759 - 10/13/09 02:11 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think you don't understand what I was trying to say. Since you cannot prove that the very last unknown black spored mushroom has been discovered, you can equally not claim that all of them are non-poisonous. However, since we know a lot of black spored mushrooms from observations over a couple of hundred years, we can pretty safely deduce from this that black spored genera are harmless (it's not like mycology started to observe these things only yesterday, you know). Actually, contrary to what you said, this is exactly how science works. What you call proof is just the observation of a predicted behavior based on a scientific model. I am confident enough in the theory of non-harmful black spored mushroom to play guinea pig eating any previously unknown black spored mushroom.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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Twiztidsage
Fungal Databaser
Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 8,089
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: CaptainCrunch]
#11240054 - 10/13/09 02:56 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I get what you are saying, and wasn't trying to disagree. I guess I just play Devil's Advocate too much.
I too would eat any black-spored mushroom. I also wouldn't say that it isn't possible to get sick from one. Some people get sick eating known edibles.
And Alan, I still want to know what "pretty harmless" means? Are there black spored mushrooms that are known to make you sick or not?
I just think it is important to keep an open mind. Science would get nowhere without it.
I again apologize for arguing. I love you all greatly.
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Eamonndoran1
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/08
Posts: 92
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Twiztidsage]
#11240394 - 10/13/09 03:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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I understand people in this forum who care about the shroomery's reputation and the safety of others don't want false information to spread. I understand people who have true information and knowledge want to articulate that and make it clear what is correct but I find some people here to be really petty and just anal. I appreciate that people want to make themselves clear and express themselves here but sometimes I read threads that seem ridiculously petty. It just annoys me a bit. This isn't a swipe at the TIs, respect to you, I'm just making the point that so much petty discussion goes on here. It's like you need to moderate everything you say because you know that someone will try and correct you in some way. Like I said, I appreciate people's attitude to spreading correct information, that's important, but the discussion in this forum seems more petty and anal than before.
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LuckOfTheFryish
Hi! I'm Fry!
Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 2,362
Loc: PNW Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: German Kahuna]
#11240430 - 10/13/09 03:58 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
German Kahuna said: Plagued by all sorts of diseases but can't afford real medication? Start using Placebo(R) today!
hahahahahaha
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German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: Eamonndoran1]
#11240438 - 10/13/09 03:59 PM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Understood. But in a potential mushroom poisoning case I feel like especially the TIs need to chime in. That's what they are here for. I don't feel like is a good thing is to hijack a thread like this for a discussion about fundamental differences in the belief of how to approach this, because it's not a casual discussion and it isn't the right place. What's your suggestion on how we could make this whole "I ate random mushrooms" discussion more casual and fun?
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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IcelandicSojourn
Monist in Training
Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 621
Loc: Valleys of the Natives
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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I say we use a method of empathic therapy whereby all who've read the OP go outside and grab the first mushroom they see, consume it, and then report back here with their experiences!
Of course, those experienced ID'ers will have to recruit a friend or family member without the first clue on ID'ing mushrooms to venture outside and claim the mushroom. They must then be blindfolded and force fed the mushroom!*
*I don't advocate any of this.
-------------------- Ne me parlez plus de politique Je veux sauver ma vie
Edited by IcelandicSojourn (10/13/09 04:49 PM)
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IcelandicSojourn
Monist in Training
Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 621
Loc: Valleys of the Natives
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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*crickets*
-------------------- Ne me parlez plus de politique Je veux sauver ma vie
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2859558484
Growery is Better
Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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nature is so complex, it could be of intelligent design
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thefarside
Pressed a button changed my face
Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 105
Last seen: 13 years, 2 days
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Re: Need help possible mushroom poisoning! [Re: 2859558484]
#11243957 - 10/14/09 02:14 AM (14 years, 5 months ago) |
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Always let the monkey sample the new treats. EVERYONE knows this rule.
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