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 Falcon91Wolvrn03
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 Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11180295 - 10/04/09 11:57 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
We would need a lot more than 4.5 trillion to cover social welfare obligations. People have estimated it anywhere from 50 to 100 trillion to cover us through the boomer generation.
The rest of the money will come from normal SSI contributions. I addressed how we could cover the predicted SSI shortage.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: zappaisgod]
#11180301 - 10/04/09 11:58 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Only if you don't increase benefits for those who make increased contributions.
Correct.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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 zorbman
Be Prepared
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,475
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: C.M. Mann]
#11180410 - 10/04/09 12:20 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
C.M. Mann said:
There was a surplus under Clinton, because of the Reagan policies.
 That's the first time I've heard that one.
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Men occasionally stumble over the truth but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: zappaisgod]
#11182212 - 10/04/09 05:27 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
Horse crap. You can't find the TRILLIONS of dollars to fund the socialist welfare programs because the money does not exist yet.
If we eliminate the SSI wage cap, that would bring in an extra $4.646 trillion. Enough to cover the shortfall (see the chart in the link I posted above).
Only if you don't increase benefits for those who make increased contributions. You do know that the benefits you get are directly related to what you pay in, right? You are just raising taxes on the wealthy to pay for the losers. Again.
Right. So it is just another hand in the pocket of the rich who already pay almost all of the taxes. Tell me again how soc sec was supposed to be money invested for retirement. Remember Al Gore's "lock box"?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: zappaisgod]
#11182403 - 10/04/09 05:53 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
So it is just another hand in the pocket of the rich who already pay almost all of the taxes.
I offered a a solution to the Social Security problem. If you're so worried that the rich will have to pay the same percentage as the poor, then nothing will be fixed. If we agree that everyone should pay the same percentage, then the problem is solved.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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If everyone pays the same percentage, should they also be able to collect the same benefits?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Redstorm]
#11182507 - 10/04/09 06:04 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not if you want to save Social Security. 
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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THC Titan
Spoonman
Registered: 03/03/09
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Loc: FL, USA
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Redstorm]
#11182516 - 10/04/09 06:06 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh no, won't someone think of the tax-burdened upper 1% and their ever-dwindling share of the nation's income..
??
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: THC Titan]
#11183536 - 10/04/09 08:12 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
THC Titan said:
Oh no, won't someone think of the tax-burdened upper 1% and their ever-dwindling share of the nation's income..
??
That looks fine until the pick up shop and move all their businesses to countries that don't tax the fuck out of them. There go all the jobs their businesses provided.
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MisterMuscaria
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 25,917
Loc: 
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Bill Clinton privatized water. Anyone who privatized water is not a friend of mine.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup
Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 3,518
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 27 days, 22 hours
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Mr.Al said:
We would need a lot more than 4.5 trillion to cover social welfare obligations. People have estimated it anywhere from 50 to 100 trillion to cover us through the boomer generation.
The rest of the money will come from normal SSI contributions. I addressed how we could cover the predicted SSI shortage.
I see..... So that 4.5 trillion wouldn't cover us through the boomer generation. It kind of doesn't matter because if M1 increases dramatically the money paid out for social welfare would be worthless anyway.
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/money-supply
In spite of the fact that banks were using bailout money to buy out competitors, M1 has spiked recently. We have to keep an eye on that.
It's unfortunate but the federal government is doing exactly what it shouldn't do to fix anything. Central economic planning "at work"...
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Mr.Al]
#11184146 - 10/04/09 10:05 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Al said:
I see..... So that 4.5 trillion wouldn't cover us through the boomer generation. It kind of doesn't matter because if M1 increases dramatically the money paid out for social welfare would be worthless anyway.
I don't understand the relationship between your graph and Social Security shortages. SSI revenue is collected by a tax on individual income up to $100k. As I pointed out, the projected shortage could be made up by charging SSI tax on income over $100k. Help me understand how the graph you posted factors into this. Thanks.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
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> I don't understand the relationship between your graph and Social Security shortages.
Saved money loses value over time due to inflation. Social security is "saved money". Unless you account for the loss in value of tax money collected today that is paid out tomorrow, you will have a shortfall when the bill comes due.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: Seuss]
#11186372 - 10/05/09 10:37 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the social security trust fund is ficticious. The Government doesn't actually save any money for the future. It takes what it needs from FICA each year, and any leftover is used to cover the deficit. So long as the Government collects enough FICA to cover its current obligations, then things are good. If there is a projected shortage, then eliminating the wage cap on FICA would bring in enough extra money to cover that shortage.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 5 hours, 51 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Thanks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the social security trust fund is ficticious. The Government doesn't actually save any money for the future. It takes what it needs from FICA each year, and any leftover is used to cover the deficit. So long as the Government collects enough FICA to cover its current obligations, then things are good. If there is a projected shortage, then eliminating the wage cap on FICA would bring in enough extra money to cover that shortage.
It is correct that it is a Ponzi scheme. Apparently your answer to the Ponzi scheme is to make it even bigger. What sheer genius. The government has essentially embezzled vast sums of money by failing to fund soc sec and you want to give them more. Here's a better idea. Raise the retirement age. When it was originally enacted life expectancy was just slightly older than the retirement age. And then start to wind it down by allowing people to opt out. No sane person will stay in. Why do you think the government should legislate that people be forced to act insanely?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: THC Titan]
#11186515 - 10/05/09 10:59 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
THC Titan said:
Oh no, won't someone think of the tax-burdened upper 1% and their ever-dwindling share of the nation's income..
??
It isn't the nation's income, Karl. It is the income of the people in the nation.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: zappaisgod]
#11186789 - 10/05/09 11:43 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
It is correct that it is a Ponzi scheme. Apparently your answer to the Ponzi scheme is to make it even bigger. What sheer genius. The government has essentially embezzled vast sums of money by failing to fund soc sec and you want to give them more. Here's a better idea. Raise the retirement age. When it was originally enacted life expectancy was just slightly older than the retirement age. And then start to wind it down by allowing people to opt out. No sane person will stay in. Why do you think the government should legislate that people be forced to act insanely?
All that needs to be done is to eliminate the wage cap, and it's no longer something that is in danger of going broke. Raising retirement age isn't a bad idea, and should also be considered as a cost saving measure.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,515
Last seen: 5 hours, 51 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
It is correct that it is a Ponzi scheme. Apparently your answer to the Ponzi scheme is to make it even bigger. What sheer genius. The government has essentially embezzled vast sums of money by failing to fund soc sec and you want to give them more. Here's a better idea. Raise the retirement age. When it was originally enacted life expectancy was just slightly older than the retirement age. And then start to wind it down by allowing people to opt out. No sane person will stay in. Why do you think the government should legislate that people be forced to act insanely?
All that needs to be done is to eliminate the wage cap, and it's no longer something that is in danger of going broke. Raising retirement age isn't a bad idea, and should also be considered as a cost saving measure.
Which is nothing more nor less than a tax increase which will take more money out of private hands and put it in government control. But that is nothing for you.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: bill clinton fucking sucked [Re: zappaisgod]
#11187394 - 10/05/09 01:32 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Which is nothing more nor less than a tax increase which will take more money out of private hands and put it in government control. But that is nothing for you.
It'd be about a $3,000/year tax increase for me. Again, I think it's dumb that everyone making under $100k pays 6% FICA, while those making more pay a smaller percentage. But we can argue back and forth about what we believe until we're blue in the face. All that really matters is what our elected officials believe.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Wouldn't a removal of the FICA cap also increase the tax burden of businesses?
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