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 Lostkeys
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 Trich Resistant Mycelium? 
#11039002 - 09/11/09 09:12 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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About three weeks ago I inoculated some agar with mushroom spores. Within a few days I noticed that there was a spot of trich growing off to the side of the mycelium, and decided to watch the trich devour my mycelium rather than throw the culture out.
Now the mycelium has colonized the entire "plate" aside from the trich infected area.
Upon further inspection it appears as if the muchroom mycelium is beginning to grow over top of the trich, which I didn't think was possible... I never expected the mycelium to win the war.
Is it possible to have a strain of mycelium that is so resistant to trich that it can fight it off? If so, I'd like to isolate this strain a bit more, exposing it to trich at several points to see if it can defeat it consistently.
The mycelium is now overlapping the trich by approximately 1/4". I would take a picture but since I had no petri's at the time, my only option was to employ 1/4 pint canning jars, which aren't conducive to picture taking.
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 Doc_T
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: Lostkeys]
#11039059 - 09/11/09 09:36 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's not impossible.
Consider that trich is a mycelium itself, and that it routinely conquers and eats cubensis mycelium.
Like a hawk eating prairie dogs, right?
Well, one day one of those prairie dogs is going to grow thumbs, and then it's a different game.
I doubt that your mycelium is the one that will defeat trich, but you might as well try it out and see. It's like winning the lottery- it really does happen to people.
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veda_sticks
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: Doc_T]
#11039079 - 09/11/09 09:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its also possible that its the trich spores germinating. Most mould mycelium is white.
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Lostkeys
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: veda_sticks]
#11041223 - 09/11/09 05:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
veda_sticks said:
Its also possible that its the trich spores germinating. Most mould mycelium is white.
Yes, I observed the trich mycelium germinate the first time, which proved it to be trich... I've never seen rhizomorphic mold mycelium however, and the organism that appears to be attacking the trich is rhizomorphic just like mushroom mycelium.
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"I felt my breathing, my face, my fingers, and I was dimly aware of an encroaching darkness. Were there flames, smoke, dust, battling troops, enormous suffering? I opened my eyes." -Saul
Everything posted in this forum is fictional, only a fool would take the things written here as fact.
For real time cultivation chat go here and type /join #cultivation
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Workman
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: Lostkeys]
#11042002 - 09/11/09 07:55 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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There are lots of green molds that will grow on agar that are not Trichoderma such as Penicillium and Aspergillus.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: Workman]
#11042066 - 09/11/09 08:08 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's also common that the mushroom mycelium will grow over and cover the mold, but it's not gone. If you use the dish to spawn to grains, the mold will return with a vengeance.
RR
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feelfunny
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11114280 - 09/23/09 07:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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found that out the hard way
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anonjon
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: feelfunny]
#11115675 - 09/23/09 11:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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me three
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: anonjon]
#11115733 - 09/23/09 11:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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While the thread is getting bumped, it's a good time to point out that mycelium isn't even what contaminates, substrates do.
RR
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kingsmountainview
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11115778 - 09/23/09 11:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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So does that mean myc such as this might still be viable? Or were you just making a point RR?
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RogerRabbit
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Quote:
Or were you just making a point RR?
I was making the point that 'trich resistant mycelium' is a misnomer.
RR
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fastfred
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11133317 - 09/26/09 09:03 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
While the thread is getting bumped, it's a good time to point out that mycelium isn't even what contaminates, substrates do.
RR
Quote:
I was making the point that 'trich resistant mycelium' is a misnomer.
RR
DOH! Why do you keep repeating that misinformation. Trich lives directly off the myc and is a parasite of the myc. I've posted electron micrographs of trich parasitizing myc before, and I'm sure you've seen them so stop spreading this nonsense.
And there are many, many species of 'trich resistant mycelium'. Specific species and individual strains of fungi are either resistant or susceptible to specific strains of trich. That's common knowledge and there's been quite a good deal of research on it. (mostly to develop trich that parasitizes specific undesired fungi).
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fastfred
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: fastfred]
#11133364 - 09/26/09 09:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here's the pictures... Proof positive of trich contaminating myc. This is probably the third time I've had to ask you to quit posting disinformation on this subject, so please quit.
Mycoparasitism by a Trichoderma strain on the plant pathogen Pythium. The Trichoderma strain was stained with an orange fluorescent dye while the Pythium was strained green.
2nd Pic should be here...
Scanning electron micrograph of the surface of a hyphae of the plant pathogen Rhizoctonia solani after mycoparasitic Trichoderma hyphae were removed. Erosion of the cell wall due to the activity of cell wall degrading enzymes from the biocontrol fungus is evident, as are holes where the mycoparasitic Trichoderma hyphae penetrated the R. solani.
Note the second pic must have been moved. It showed the holes trich dissolves in the cell walls of it's host to extract nutrients.
-FF
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anonjon
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: fastfred]
#11133542 - 09/26/09 09:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Those are cool pics.
From what I've seen, it's very common for cubes to defeat trich. But it doesn't destroy the spores, it encases them. Then as soon as the myc weakens the spores germinate and reinfect it.
Breeding a strain of cube that is resistant like this isn't necessary. Plenty of the commercial strains already are very resistant as I've described above.
But if one could breed a strain that exudes some metabolite that can destroy the spores, then you'd really have something. I think this is beyond the means of a typical hobbyist though.
So the simple answer to the op's question is no. You can't do it.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: fastfred]
#11133701 - 09/26/09 09:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Here's the pictures... Proof positive of trich contaminating myc. This is probably the third time I've had to ask you to quit posting disinformation on this subject, so please quit.
Mycoparasitism by a Trichoderma strain on the plant pathogen Pythium. The Trichoderma strain was stained with an orange fluorescent dye while the Pythium was strained green.
-FF
That blurry thing doesn't prove anything.
One would expect you to know better than to refer to a fungal-like pathogen that attacks plant roots as mycelium(which it isn't). That's a stretch that defies credibility. One would also expect the beneficial fungi trichoderma to attack root pathogens in the soil. They've evolved together for millions of years.
RR
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anonjon
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11133726 - 09/26/09 10:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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How can you be so certain its not eating the fungi. You take a colonized brf/verm cake on it's third flush and watch trich devour it. You're saying there's still enough brf left in the thing for the trich to eat? Doesn't seem likely.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: anonjon]
#11133809 - 09/26/09 10:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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There's enough brf left for the mycelium to fruit five or six times, so why is it a stretch to think there isn't enough for a conidial mold?
I simply objected to the accusation of spreading disinformation, 'proved' by calling Pythium 'mycelium' when there's legitimate debate in the science community whether Pythium is even truly a fungus or not, but it's obviously not mushroom mycelium, the topic of interest to readers here. It reminds me of the 8th graders 'proving' us wrong when we say water doesn't remain liquid above 100c at atmospheric pressure by showing that distilled water in the microwave trick we've all seen a hundred times.
RR
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anonjon
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11133849 - 09/26/09 10:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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There's enough mycelium tissue to convert into fruitbodies; not necessarily more undigested nutrients. It's a paradigm in this hobby that full colonization means the myc has eaten up all the available food and that this is one of the major fruiting triggers.
I'm not arguing just to argue. I'm genuinely interested in the discussion. Ultimately it's debatable either way and everyone should try to be civil.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: anonjon]
#11133857 - 09/26/09 10:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Fruitbodies are mycelium. Tertiary mycelium. Agreed on being civil.
RR
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kingsmountainview
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Re: Trich Resistant Mycelium? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11139167 - 09/27/09 09:23 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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interesting...
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