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 Power
Stranger
Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 264
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 Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poid]
#10975579 - 08/31/09 07:50 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Claiming such inhuman abilities isn't enough, you have to adamantly believe that you possess such abilities to be delusional! 
Claiming such abilities are inhuman is presumptuous.
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zen buddy
not a buddhist
 
Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 704
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Power]
#10976943 - 08/31/09 11:37 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Power said:
Quote:
zen buddy said:
Maybe someone should start a thread in PSP attempting to prove that psychic abilities are impossible.
Go ahead.
That would be a waste of time.
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TheWolf
Antechamber Of Mystery
Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 225
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poid]
#10978121 - 09/01/09 07:48 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Telepathy is just perceiving an intended thought from one person to another. Going back on the 'green triangle' discussion, you'd be more so inclined toward the other's perception of the green triangle than your own. This is how I've come to understand what telepathy is. It's not the literal reading of one person's mind, I don't believe you can "hear their thoughts" as if they were thinking in your own head. You seem to be thinking too much of comic books, movies, and television shows.
"A person who is able to make use of telepathy is said to be able to read the thoughts and stored information in the brain of others." I'd even find that ridiculous, I don't believe someone is able to access random memory from a brain of someone as if they were a computer drive. But being able to perceive something with means other than the 5 physical senses about a person or an object, I'd consider that a 'psychic ability'.
Telekinesis and all the other more "flashy" type of abilities that have been supposed to exist or have been featured in the media, I believe more than likely do not exist. Telepathy, empathy, thing of that nature. Those do exist, to an extent.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,359
Loc: SF Bay Area 
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: TheWolf]
#10978264 - 09/01/09 08:25 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Power said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Claiming such inhuman abilities isn't enough, you have to adamantly believe that you possess such abilities to be delusional!
Claiming such abilities are inhuman is presumptuous.
Ok. 
Quote:
TheWolf said:
Telepathy is just perceiving an intended thought from one person to another.
This is impossible; instead, people are just using their imaginations to concoct educated guesses of what another person is thinking.
Quote:
TheWolf said:
It's not the literal reading of one person's mind, I don't believe you can "hear their thoughts" as if they were thinking in your own head. You seem to be thinking too much of comic books, movies, and television shows.
It is in fact the literal hearing of others' thoughts, I quoted Wikipedia's definition for a reason.
Quote:
TheWolf said:
"A person who is able to make use of telepathy is said to be able to read the thoughts and stored information in the brain of others." I'd even find that ridiculous, I don't believe someone is able to access random memory from a brain of someone as if they were a computer drive. But being able to perceive something with means other than the 5 physical senses about a person or an object, I'd consider that a 'psychic ability'.
Humans don't actually have other senses. This "sixth sense" is pure imagination, literally. 
Quote:
TheWolf said:
Telepathy, empathy, thing of that nature. Those do exist, to an extent.
Telepathy doesn't exist, and it never will for humans. Empathy and telepathy are not one and the same. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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 nicechrisman
guru
Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 6,684
Loc: B'ham Washington
Last seen: 7 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: TheWolf]
#10978286 - 09/01/09 08:29 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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So how bout instead of arguing about whether or not psychic abilities exist, we go a little bit futher and just for the sake of talking about mysticism and the paranormal, we assume that there is a possibility of such things. Perhaps we might even have a conversation about methods to become more in touch with these abilities.
Or we can just continue going around in argument circles until the end of time...
I think there are many methods that have been used in many different societies over the ages to reach mental states other than the "norm". Many do say that by reaching these "other than normal" mental states, they are able to contact information other than what our normal every day perception would allow.
I find it interesting that similar methods have been used by shamen from many different corners of the globe, who's cultures would have had very little if any contact with each other.
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Let none deceive another, or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill will wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life her child, her only child,
so with a boundless heart should one cherish all living beings,
radiating kindness over the entire world.
By this merit, may all attain omniscience.
May it defeat the enemy, wrong doing.
From the stormy waves of birth, old age, sickness and death,
from the ocean of samsara,
may I free all beings.
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zen buddy
not a buddhist
Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 704
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poid]
#10978361 - 09/01/09 08:50 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Actually, because no one can prove that psychic abilities do not exist we do not have to assume that these things are possible because it is a fact that they are possible.
Quote:
Poid said:
Telepathy doesn't exist, and it never will for humans.
You cannot say that something does not exist as if it was a matter of fact unless you are able to prove that it does not exist... and repeating yourself over and over again does nothing but disrupt a very harmless and interesting conversation.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,359
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: nicechrisman]
#10978368 - 09/01/09 08:52 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
nicechrisman said:
So how bout instead of arguing about whether or not psychic abilities exist, we go a little bit futher and just for the sake of talking about mysticism and the paranormal, we assume that there is a possibility of such things. Perhaps we might even have a conversation about methods to become more in touch with these abilities.
It's physically impossible, do you not get it? 
Quote:
nicechrisman said:
I think there are many methods that have been used in many different societies over the ages to reach mental states other than the "norm". Many do say that by reaching these "other than normal" mental states, they are able to contact information other than what our normal every day perception would allow.
God damn it. These "mental states" are just pure imagination; when I'm daydreaming, I'm in a different mental state then when I'm out in the streets getting fucked up and partying etc.
In reality, we cannot perceive with anything other than our physical body, because perception is a physical mechanism. We can imagine, but that's as far as we can get.
Quote:
nicechrisman said:
I find it interesting that similar methods have been used by shamen from many different corners of the globe, who's cultures would have had very little if any contact with each other.
Shamen? 
First of all, please provide sources for this claim. Second of all, even if it's true, so what? We're all human beings, it's no fucking surprise that we create similar vain imaginings...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,359
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: zen buddy]
#10978375 - 09/01/09 08:54 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zen buddy said:
Actually, because no one can prove that psychic abilities do not exist we do not have to assume that these things are possible because it is a fact that they are possible.
Quote:
Poid said:
Telepathy doesn't exist, and it never will for humans.
You cannot say that something does not exist as if it was a matter of fact unless you are able to prove that it does not exist... and repeating yourself over and over again does nothing but disrupt a very harmless and interesting conversation.
You are a physical being, no? It has been proven that perception is a physical mechanism, no?
The burden of proof is on the claimant who suggests that some sort of non self-evident phenomenon exists. What in the world makes you think the burden of proof is on me? 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Grapefruit
Obliviated
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 4,276
Last seen: 4 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poid]
#10978771 - 09/01/09 10:09 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Telepathy doesn't exist
I'd be interested to see what proof you have for this claim. If you have no proof (which you don't because it's not even possible to prove a negative) then that's just as bad as those who adamantly believe it does exist tbh.
Quote:
The burden of proof is on the claimant who suggests that some sort of non self-evident phenomenon exists. What in the world makes you think the burden of proof is on me?
You said that it didn't exist, not that there was no proof it exist so it is not objective fact. You said that objectively telepathy doesn't exist, when you have no clue.
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"So man's insanity is heaven's sense; and wandering from all mortal reason, man comes at last to that celestial thought, which, to reason, is absurd and frantic; and weal or woe, feels then uncompromised, indifferent as his God." - Herman Melville
Edited by Grapefruit (09/01/09 10:12 AM)
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Tranquil Toad
A.I. Living Inside the Internet
Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 773
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poid]
#10979020 - 09/01/09 10:53 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
It has been proven that perception is a physical mechanism, no?
I don't think that has been proven at all. We really do not know at this point. We can see that altering the brain alters perception, but that does not mean perception is an entirely physical event.
I think its funny that die hard materialist are so certain that the world is primarily made of a matter and consciousness is somehow a byproduct of it, secondary to matter. The only thing any of us have ever experienced is consciousness. Consciousness is really our first principle. It seems to me the burden of proof should be on the materialist to show that their is anything but consciousness; and I don't think the fact that destroying the brain results in death is proof, as we have no witness to tell us what really happens after.
Take the analogy of someone who has spent their entire life staring at a television screen displaying a flower. They say, "surely that flower is real," ignoring the fact that all they have ever really known is the television screen. Well, for some reason, we have become fixated on the world of matter, when we spend our entire lives using consciousness to perceive it - never able to step outside of our minds and prove the objective validity of of matter as separate from mind.
Oh, and thread almost TOTALLY derailed into another argument about the validity of the mystic/paranormal.
Any comments on psychic abilities that aren't argumentative? It would be welcome  .
Edited by Tranquil Toad (09/01/09 11:00 AM)
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,359
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Tranquil Toad]
#10979399 - 09/01/09 11:48 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said:
Quote:
Telepathy doesn't exist
I'd be interested to see what proof you have for this claim. If you have no proof (which you don't because it's not even possible to prove a negative) then that's just as bad as those who adamantly believe it does exist tbh.
Quote:
The burden of proof is on the claimant who suggests that some sort of non self-evident phenomenon exists. What in the world makes you think the burden of proof is on me?
You said that it didn't exist, not that there was no proof it exist so it is not objective fact. You said that objectively telepathy doesn't exist, when you have no clue.
I already explained, several times, that it is impossible and non-existent. If you wanna go back and read, be my guest.
Quote:
Tranquil Toad said:
Quote:
Poid said:
It has been proven that perception is a physical mechanism, no?
I don't think that has been proven at all. We really do not know at this point. We can see that altering the brain alters perception, but that does not mean perception is an entirely physical event.
It depends on a physical body to exist; take that away, and you also take away perception.
Quote:
Tranquil Toad said:
I think its funny that die hard materialist are so certain that the world is primarily made of a matter and consciousness is somehow a byproduct of it, secondary to matter. The only thing any of us have ever experienced is consciousness. Consciousness is really our first principle. It seems to me the burden of proof should be on the materialist to show that their is anything but consciousness; and I don't think the fact that destroying the brain results in death is proof, as we have no witness to tell us what really happens after.
We know that the creature is no more after it's dead. We know, via experimentation, that inanimate objects are not conscious.
Why imagine things and automatically assume that they're true? 
Quote:
Tranquil Toad said:
Take the analogy of someone who has spent their entire life staring at a television screen displaying a flower. They say, "surely that flower is real," ignoring the fact that all they have ever really known is the television screen. Well, for some reason, we have become fixated on the world of matter, when we spend our entire lives using consciousness to perceive it - never able to step outside of our minds and prove the objective validity of of matter as separate from mind.
This just goes back to defining terms. If someone spent their entire life watching a flower on TV, to them, the term 'flower' is defined as a mosaic of blips on a screen that produce a certain image. And that person would be correct in defining that as such.
Just like a machine works and does things, so do we.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,797
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poid]
#10979450 - 09/01/09 11:55 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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But...but... it would be so cool if it was possible and existent! 
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,359
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: DieCommie]
#10979512 - 09/01/09 12:05 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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True, but it's not even fathomable.
It's like you literally feeling my sprained wrist; this is nonsense on so many levels...
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poptart
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1,819
Last seen: 3 months, 22 days
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poid]
#10979689 - 09/01/09 12:31 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Poid...
Learn to swim
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,359
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poptart]
#10979704 - 09/01/09 12:34 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Poptart...
Show me how you do it
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Poptart
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1,819
Last seen: 3 months, 22 days
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poid]
#10979730 - 09/01/09 12:37 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Be still
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,359
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poptart]
#10979854 - 09/01/09 12:59 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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...then I'll sink! 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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TheWolf
Antechamber Of Mystery
Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 225
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poid]
#10979983 - 09/01/09 01:19 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote me where I said telepathy and empathy are the same thing.
Oh, my bad, I guess wikipedia's definitions of everything are absolute.
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Poid
deBunker
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,359
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: TheWolf]
#10980053 - 09/01/09 01:30 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheWolf said:
Telepathy, empathy, thing of that nature. Those do exist, to an extent.
You are saying that these things are of the same nature. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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zen buddy
not a buddhist
Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 704
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Re: You should all develop your psychic ability. [Re: Poid]
#10980355 - 09/01/09 02:24 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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