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 Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
 
Registered: 03/12/06
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 We could feed and house everyone in America 
#10865424 - 08/15/09 03:17 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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If we replaced
Social Security
680 Billion
Income Security
520 Billion
Veterans Benefits and Services
95 Billion
and shaved off 25% of the the following budgets (health comes from reduced costs).
Defense
175 Billion
Medicare
110 Billion
Health
90 Billion
and a few other reduced costs, we get 1.7-1.8 billion dollars. By my calculations, it would take about 2-3 trillion to feed and house every American on the cheap (or to give them the equivalent tax credit). Assuming that not everyone will utilize it, that reduces that cost to closer to 2 trillion. Assuming that this spending will increase GDP, this would fill the gap between the costs of the program and the funding sources I outlined above. Of course, new taxes are an option too.
We could argue about socialism and which is more free, to pay taxes or to have basic necessities. But I just want to point out that it's possible.
The costs are very flexible of course. I didn't go too in depth into calculations there for that reason.
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 c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
#10866098 - 08/15/09 05:34 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Let's go as far as to take the money of the equation completely. When we evolve as a species stuff like health care and food should naturally be provided for any working person.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#10866195 - 08/15/09 05:47 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Pretty much every working person already has no problem buying that stuff for himself and much more.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: zappaisgod]
#10866207 - 08/15/09 05:50 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Pretty much every working person already has no problem buying that stuff for himself and much more.
I think you mean renting, and at a increasingly large percentage of income.
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Yrat
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
#10866222 - 08/15/09 05:51 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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all those programs have the country in the hole for upwards of $70 trillion in unfunded liabilities. you can restructure the wealth redistribution however you want, but the entirety of the budget is still headed deeply into the red. the whole thing needs to be slashed to the ground, we don't need more programs.
smaller government, not bigger. this should be the answer to any options put on the table by the government that wants to expand its powers.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Yrat]
#10866246 - 08/15/09 05:57 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
$70 trillion in unfunded liabilities
For starters, that figure is really entirely irrelevant seeing as as soon as social security is restructured, those liabilities no longer exist.
Second off, this would likely reduce costs for most Americans. The current housing market isn't structured to cater to the needs of the poor. Low income housing subsidies are a complete failure, so a more drastic approach is needed.
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Yrat
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
#10866406 - 08/15/09 06:22 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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so outright socialism is your proposed approach?
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to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Yrat]
#10866421 - 08/15/09 06:23 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
so outright socialism is your proposed approach?
It could include market elements, but we're taking an area of economics where the market is failing the consumer, so it makes sense to use socialism to an extent, yes.
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Yrat
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
#10866469 - 08/15/09 06:31 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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the problem in the markets is too much government involvement as it is, and you're proposing their complete takeover. great idea! we all know how fantastically socialism ends up.
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Yrat]
#10866507 - 08/15/09 06:36 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
the problem in the markets is too much government involvement as it is, and you're proposing their complete takeover. great idea!
Would you care to explain how less government would make it more profitable to make low income housing? Because it won't. You've been fed a line that less government makes everything better and this is one example of where that is completely wrong (along with many, many more areas).
Really, as minimum wage drops back to a dollar, the number of people that can afford to buy a home drops drastically to pretty much nobody.
Quote:
we all know how fantastically socialism ends up.
The only socialist countries are widely accepted as having the highest standing of living in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
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danielx
whatup!
Registered: 10/13/08
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
#10867412 - 08/15/09 09:16 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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like iceland with a population of 320,000? please. 
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Posts: 11,529
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: danielx]
#10867420 - 08/15/09 09:18 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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More like Norway, but ya.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
#10867436 - 08/15/09 09:23 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Of course, we have one of the highest tax rates, even higher than Canada, which many consider as socialist.
We could be like our awesome neighbors Mexico, with their low tax rate which is working out so well.
US workers are just fleeing there by hoards to take all the jobs it creates.
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DieCommie
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
#10867837 - 08/15/09 10:44 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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We can feed and house everyone in america without replacing any of that shit. Everyone already does get fed in america, there is no starvation in america outside of child abuse and mental illness. Every major city in the country gives out food for free, and nearly any church in the country will give you food for free if you are hungry. The amount of people without housing is infinitesimal and largley based off their own choices (even if they are poor choices due to mental health and substance abuse issues).
You are barking up the wrong tree.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: DieCommie]
#10867855 - 08/15/09 10:47 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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I haven't even mentioned housing. Lack of affordable housing increasing the poverty rate is what I've been talking about. As for food, I'm talking about a tax credit. This will free up money at the bottom and create new markets and is ultimately good for a capitalist society.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
#10867869 - 08/15/09 10:50 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Also, I don't want to get too statistic heavy, but something like 45 percent of homeless worked in the last month and something like a third are families with children. So to characterize them as a bunch of lazies or loons is a common misconception.
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Yrat
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
#10869112 - 08/16/09 06:55 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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houses are a good that have a market just like any other good. as such, they are subject to the laws of supply and demand. if housing is too expensive for the poor, it simply means there is demand from actual working people who are willing to shell out the cash for a house.
you are proposing to completely do away with supply and demand. what other markets would you like to destroy? should everyone who can't afford a car get one too?
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Yrat]
#10869575 - 08/16/09 09:34 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
houses are a good that have a market just like any other good. as such, they are subject to the laws of supply and demand. if housing is too expensive for the poor, it simply means there is demand from actual working people who are willing to shell out the cash for a house.
you are proposing to completely do away with supply and demand. what other markets would you like to destroy? should everyone who can't afford a car get one too?
Quote:
Yrat said:
houses are a good that have a market just like any other good. as such, they are subject to the laws of supply and demand. if housing is too expensive for the poor, it simply means there is demand from actual working people who are willing to shell out the cash for a house.
you are proposing to completely do away with supply and demand. what other markets would you like to destroy? should everyone who can't afford a car get one too?
Shelter is a human right, this is true in US case law as well (see: while it is illegal to contract with a minor, if they ask for food or shelter and you are selling, one doesn't have the right to refuse sale in this case for this reason).
So so much for your bad example. Supply and demand should not apply to a basic human right, no, not when it artificially raises prices so that the lowest priced goods are unattainable and the lowest priced possible goods are not even produced.
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Yrat
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Ferris]
#10869657 - 08/16/09 09:59 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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is the "basic human right" of shelter outlined in the Constitution? if not (and the answer is no) then government has no business to interfere in such.
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: We could feed and house everyone in America [Re: Yrat]
#10869729 - 08/16/09 10:14 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yrat said:
is the "basic human right" of shelter outlined in the Constitution? if not (and the answer is no) then government has no business to interfere in such.
Wrong. Completely and utter ignorance of the law. There is no excuse for that misinterpretation.
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