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 Primefied
werd
Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 133
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 Battery acid? 
#10585737 - 06/28/09 10:52 AM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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Im sure youve all seen it in Stamets` book and lectures, how the oyster mycelium emulsifies the crude and turns the soil in to a thriving ecosystem. Its a beautiful thing, it has potential to turn the oil sands from a huge, dead area of land back in to a habitat.
Another problem we face regarding pollution and C02 emissions is that we cant seem to get out of our habit of internal combustion engines and the use of petrol. One reason is that whenever there is an alternative, the alternative has drawbacks as well. For example electric cars. Sounds ideal, but unfourtunatly the build up of batteries in landfilles causes devastating affects pollution wise, and there seems to be no sollution untill there is a biogegradable battery.
So my question to all of you is;
Could fungi be used to reduce or eliminate the negative affects of battery acid in soil?
Is it just because noone has tried, or is it not possible?
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Sink or Swim
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JaComet
Old Hand
Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 341
Loc: Out Yonder
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Wood Ash works. I learned of this from farmers saving their ponds from acid rain.
Smart Fellers them farmers.
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 RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 27,102
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: Battery acid? [Re: JaComet]
#10586636 - 06/28/09 02:08 PM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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As does lime, the common way to neutralize battery acid.
RR
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www.mushroomvideos.com
the preacher man says,
"Sex is a filthy horrible, evil, dirty act, spawned by the devil himself, that you save for the one person you truly love."
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Primefied
werd
Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 133
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o.k that makes sense, I bet with any base in the right combination could neutralize it.
I guess I didnt read enough about what causes the pollution, and its not just the factor its acidic but the fact it contains chemicals like lead, lithium, silver oxide, mercury etc.
I might be a little over optimistic, but do you think its possible to find a fungi to help breakdown harmful elements like say lead or mercury?
I ask because, RR for example, you have so much more experience in this field than I do, as well as lab equiptment etc. Have you ever tried or heard of anyone whose tried to see if there is a way to breakdown the toxins that are most harmful to ourselves and the environment with fungi? Like Stamets did with the oyster mushrooms and oil.
Who knows maybe fungi could be the answer to the global warming problems that seem to be very real.
Thank you!
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Sink or Swim
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ScavengerType
I am Jack's wasted life
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 4,526
Loc: your mom's place
Last seen: 17 hours, 49 minutes
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the problems there is that all those elements you mentioned are just that elements.
Now in the GMM forum we just had a fascinating discussion about the petrol products that mushrooms and other microbes can break down, but what we were all in unanimous agreement about is that mushrooms will usurp heavy metals from the soil. This is good and bad. If you want to clean heavy metals out of the soil they will be absorbed by mushrooms, but then ya cant eat them. So you are left with a valueless waste product that needs to be disposed of. Many environmental scientists already know about this and that some legumes also have this ability as well.
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"In reality high profits tend much more to raise the price of work than high wages. Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people."
- Adam Smith: The Wealth of Nations (1776)
Conquer's Club
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MrGreen
L-l-l-learning.
Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 108
Last seen: 7 months, 25 days
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Quote:
Primefied said:
o.k that makes sense, I bet with any base in the right combination could neutralize it.
In general this may be believed, but don't that's a very dangerous thing to think. There was a story about a guy at a plant who got a very strong acid on his face. So his go worker took a strong base and threw it on his face, problem.
Extreme bases and acids don't counter act, because both are highly reactive.
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JaComet
Old Hand
Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 341
Loc: Out Yonder
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Quote:
Primefied said:
Who knows maybe fungi could be the answer to the global warming problems that seem to be very real.
Primefied,
Please look up “650 Scientists Global Warming” in your favorite search engine. There is a lot more orthodox science against the warming idea than for it.
Global warming is a political ploy and power/revenue stream for Al Gore and buddies, little more than another elitist control mechanism..
“The over 650 dissenting scientists are more than 12 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers.”
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Primefied
werd
Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 133
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Re: Battery acid? [Re: JaComet]
#10591548 - 06/29/09 09:50 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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So yet again it is proven that I know very little. I guess I like it like that.
Ill read in to the global warming skeptisism. Ive always thought it was a plausible affect from all of the lead and clourofluorocarbons we`ve emitted in the past 80 years. I am a believer that no matter what will happen the earth will go on as a thriving organism long after humans are gone anyway.
thanks guys!
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Sink or Swim
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 27,102
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
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Quote:
Please look up “650 Scientists Global Warming” in your favorite search engine. There is a lot more orthodox science against the warming idea than for it.
Nonsense. You could go to any mega-church in hillbillyville and get 10,000 experts to dispute global warming, but that doesn't make it credible. Keep this stuff to the political forum please. This isn't the forum to bash a Nobel prize winner, who has not only been proved correct, but that he didn't go nearly far enough and actually underestimated the problem. Satellite images of the polar ice cap and Greenland don't lie. Political hacks from both the right and left wing do lie.
I don't see any evidence that heavy metals are contributing to global climate change though, despite their obvious health implications. As said, fungi can absorb the metals, but then the fungi still needs to be disposed of.
RR
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www.mushroomvideos.com
the preacher man says,
"Sex is a filthy horrible, evil, dirty act, spawned by the devil himself, that you save for the one person you truly love."
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ScavengerType
I am Jack's wasted life
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 4,526
Loc: your mom's place
Last seen: 17 hours, 49 minutes
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Actually the mods in the political forum won't let you debate global warming there they pass it off into science and tech unless it has anything to do with policy structure.
That said, as a person who's been reading communiques from the environmental movement for a long time prior to "an inconvenient truth" as well as, specifically, literature on global warming that pre-dates that movie. I find it hard to believe that this is a "all gore and his buddies" arrangement. In fact his movie is just riding on the coattails of other scientists who've done the groundwork but don't have his claim to fame as the real winner of the 2000 USA elections. Douchebag Mc Kerry also tried the same thing with water runoff lakes and rivers after his unsuccessful bid for president to a lesser extent, pirating work that had already been done by David Suzuki, Mark De Villers and others. Your on crack if you think these people are where these ideas originated. Politicians don't have original ideas, just expensive soap boxes.
Also I would point out that creationists have scientists as well that petition for their cause, but I've never heard a legitimate argument from a global-warming/anthropogenic global-warming denier or a creationist that has made sense from start to finish.
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"In reality high profits tend much more to raise the price of work than high wages. Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people."
- Adam Smith: The Wealth of Nations (1776)
Conquer's Club
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JaComet
Old Hand
Registered: 11/12/02
Posts: 341
Loc: Out Yonder
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OUCH ! This is Politicks and Showbiz sweeties. That’s all it is.
Primefied,
I apologize for starting a flame fest. Was not my intention but the subject is a bit of a hot button with me also.
Scavengertype,
I was all set to start a poll in another forum but if this is an unclassifiable subject, I best close with my sources here and fade away. I will leave it to the inquiring reader to perform a little diligence to their own satisfaction. Or not.
For policy implications look up HR 2454 - the American Clean Energy and Security Act (ACES).
What did it end up being. 1,600 pages of tax and regulate crap with 300 pages added a few hours before the vote. NOBODY had a copy of those 300 pages before the vote. Debate was throttled by declaring Martial Law in the House to force the vote under emergency conditions. FUCK EM RAW.
Rodger,
That Nobel Prize Winner would not be Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever, who states :
“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.”
10,000 Church going hillbillies aside, I never called them “experts”. One may make their own determinations on the individuals qualifications to speak.
The number of Degreed and Accredited individuals counted by signature as skeptics. :
9,029 PhD; 7,153 MS; 2,585 MD and DVM; and 12,711 BS or equivalent academic degrees.
That’s over 30,000 to find your hillbillies in. Look for someone in your own State. You might recognize a name or two.
http://www.petitionproject.org/signers_by_state_main.php
I guess the Journal of Geophysical Research isn’t a reliable source since 1994, so I won‘t cite them.
Haven’t kept up with the 650 Scientists since December, but that number has grown to well over 700. They are signatory and commentators to the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works.
U. S. Senate Minority Report:
More Than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over
Man-Made Global Warming Claims
Scientists Continue to Debunk “Consensus” in 2008 &2009
(Updates Previous Report: “More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims”)
You’ll find such comments and Credentials as :
“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical...The main basis of the claim that man’s release of greenhouse gases is the cause of the warming is based almost entirely upon climate models. We all know the frailty of models concerning the air-surface system.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology, and formerly of NASA, who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”
“Warming fears are the worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.
“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists.” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.
You can get the full 255 Pg Senate Minority Report in PDF here : CAUTION : This is a U.S. Government site.
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=83947f5d-d84a-4a84-ad5d-6e2d71db52d9
OK. Enough already. I’m out.
PS : Wood ash is a better medium in my opinion. It provides alkalinity and a wide mineral base to feed organisms in the remediation process.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 27,102
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 2 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: Battery acid? [Re: JaComet]
#10597943 - 06/30/09 01:46 PM (8 months, 6 days ago) |
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I agree there's people who don't believe climate change is related to humans, and perhaps the jury is still out.
However, 29% of all Americans also believe an ancient middle-eastern nomadic sheep herder's regional deity created the world in six days, and then destroyed it in a flood, with only one family remaining who built an ark. We are all the descendants of this family's incestuous relationships according to them.
I'm just saying there's always two or more sides to any debate. Those who cling religiously to any single argument are nearly always wrong.
RR
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www.mushroomvideos.com
the preacher man says,
"Sex is a filthy horrible, evil, dirty act, spawned by the devil himself, that you save for the one person you truly love."
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dieselkush
Stranger
Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 582
Last seen: 6 months, 4 days
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I believe humans are 60-70% of climate change. we bring pollution, oil spills, environment disasters, etc. on top of all other causes humans simply being in motion is causing climate change. billions of cars heating asphalt has to cause friction on the earth heating it. I'm the kind of person who believes that the earth is a living part. the way I see it, galaxys are beings. slow moving, constantly creating new cells, etc. doing every thing the human body can do, just on a grand larger scale. now looking microscopic, our planet is more like an atom to the galaxy, or a cell. and within that atom/cell is parasites,which is our miserable existence. so even drilling this earth is harming the main being. in my eyes anyways.
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Primefied
werd
Registered: 02/10/09
Posts: 133
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I find the argument that humans arent necessarily causing global warming interesting. It could be true, obviously the impact the sun has on the earth is far more than what we could ever accomplish. That being said, to say that we arent doing anything to fuck up the planet is absurd! We are a part of the whole, nothing more. I dont like the fact that on this voyage through time our ancestors have had over the past 10000 years or so, technology has seemingly given us an edge over the rest of the planet. As Mckenna puts it
``I will argue that suppression of shamanic gnosis, with its reliance and insistence on ecstatic dissolution of the ego, has robbed us of life's meaning and made us enemies of the planet, of ourselves, and our grandchildren. We are killing the planet in order to keep intact the wrongheaded assumptions of the ego-dominator cultural style. It is time for change.``
Whether or not we are the ones heating up the earth and changing the climate seems irrelevant to me. Theres enough evidence of self inflicted destruction to our planet without taking global warming in to account.
Do you guys ever watch Neil Degrasse Tysons lectures on intelligent design and the end of human civilization as we know it? Its great stuff. We are not special in the sense that we are unique to life. Life is special, and life will go on on this planet for another few humdred million, maybe another few billion years. Humans will not though. Eventually there will be a devastating event, or if not sooner we could simply wipe ourselves out. Its the bacteria, and fungi and prokaryotes that will survive and other species will evolve based on the needs of the organism. The earth is not suffering at the cost of us. Its simply dealing.
Though, we do need a change of consciousness to lead us in to a greater understanding. But for the moment we seem paralyzed with dominator values; money, religion, etc. to make any changes that could benefit the needs of the planet and its creatures as a whole.
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Sink or Swim
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didjin_d
mmm....
Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 583
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 4 hours, 46 minutes
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 So... how 'bout that battery acid.
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"Most of the people who ask the question 'Do any psilocybin mushrooms grow around here?' would rather change their way of looking at reality rather than face the difficult and discouraging task of transforming reality itself"
-David Aurora, Mushrooms Demystified
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ScavengerType
I am Jack's wasted life
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 4,526
Loc: your mom's place
Last seen: 17 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Battery acid? [Re: didjin_d]
#10605113 - 07/01/09 05:45 PM (8 months, 5 days ago) |
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I saw on "mansers" (quality source?) that uric acid has a negative charge to it and that urine could be used for power. I have some doubts of using a fungus to make battery acid, but I wouldn't deny the possibility of a bacterium or something doing it. There could be a potential if you could find a microbe that produced a negatively charged waste fluid. If your into that sorta microbiology and think you can figure out how to make it work feel free to post about it here or even PM me personally. I'm not an expert on it, but would love to help you. I particularly could help you with calculating ratios of effectiveness per volume or percentage vs oil or other fuel forms.
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non-topic discussion
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That said. My grandfather is a smart man, dude built his own miniature observatory for his hobby telescope. He reads popular science and is a wonderful mechanic/mechanical engineer. He really is smart enough that given the right circumstances he could have been a serious astronomer. But the dude thinks that oil is actually from asteroids and not from dead organic matter compressed under sediment. He believes this in the face of experts who make their living in trillion dollar industries with their money exclusively behind science that says otherwise and knowing this is how they make their money. Now he's clearly a smart man and it is possible that nobody has properly articulated exactly how that mater decayed and was pressurized into oil, but this one idea of his is bat-shit fucking insane. Even Nobel prize winners could do this, hell Milton Friedman was a Nobel prize winner, yet him and his ideology were part of the most tyrannical fascist dictatorships and largest economic failures of the 1970s and onward (technically ideology started in 1950) and this is something that is born in the fundamentals of everything he believes in.
Another thing that tells me that global warming skeptics are completely full of crap or rather mistaken is that their beliefs are often reactionary. For example I'd noticed the recent shift of the anti-belief-in-global-warming-movement to the anti-belief-in-human-caused-global-warming, and it reminds me of the shift from "creationist theory" to "Intelligent Design theory" because of mounds of evidence that was contradicting the one. The reason the one shifts to the other is because it is based on a preferred assumption and people react to protect their preferred view of reality. Only sick and weird people want global warming to be true. If you believe in it and even if you do well to protect the environment it is never good enough to negate the impacts of others (like the corporate sector) and it ultimately feels quite futile. Nobody wants to live in this reality you claim to be fantasy. I wish there was a mythical being that could help me and others rise up and help save the environment, that would be a fantasy for me, it is in reality a fools paradise. A dream that no mater how bad I wish to be true, my common sense and skepticism will not allow me to engage. We've seen reactionary results before, like the catholic church's acknowledgment that Galileo/Darwin were right for instance. The quote in my sig is from a dude who fought his entire life to say the earth was formed from a long progressive change that dwarfs human existence rather than the biblical thousands of years. This man was off by millions of years in his predictions, but the fundamentals of his beliefs were right and form the basis of our modern knowledge.
The fact that our earth is warmed by these gasses is proven by the 32 or so degree (C I think) warming our planet has over if it had no atmosphere. The altering of the ratios of those gasses by humans is a real threat to the planet. How we can live on a planet where the ozone was nearly destroyed into the more populated parts of the planet, sunlight reaching the earth has halved in the last 50 years and still people deny that human's contributions can impact the earth is a mystery to me. As a scientific minded man I can only look at this and say WTF were you smokin?
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"In reality high profits tend much more to raise the price of work than high wages. Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people."
- Adam Smith: The Wealth of Nations (1776)
Conquer's Club
Edited by ScavengerType (07/01/09 06:57 PM)
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Mephistophelian
Six Legged Pilot
Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 1,484
Loc: Camp Crystal Lake
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 Battery acid or not...this has been an awesome evolution of conversation.
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You're not the contents of your wallet... you're not how much money you've got in the bank... You're not your job... You're not your family, and you're not who you tell yourself.... You're not your name.... You're not your problems.... You're not your age....You're not your fucking khaki's... ~Chuck Palahniuk
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DrOli
Biochemist
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 215
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours
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Re: Battery acid? [Re: JaComet]
#10605670 - 07/01/09 07:47 PM (8 months, 4 days ago) |
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I'm adding in a bit late and completely off the primary topic. But, is it still not worth doing something about a probable cause of global warming, even if there was not enough evidence to definitely prove that it was the cause.
AIDs is a good example. Years ago we knew little about it and didn't rightly know for definite, if it was due to a virus or not, (though the majority of the science community took to the viral view). Some very prominent biochemists and biologists rejected this and said that HIV was a passenger virus and that AIDs was a lifestyle symptom. South Africa took one of these guys (Peter Duesberg) on as a science adviser. Needless to say he single-handedly caused a momentous increase in AIDs cases in SA and the deaths of a lot of people. Taking the cautious view is generally the better in most cases.
Back to the topic anyhows, I think mercury disposal would be a problem. Even if mycellium did take it up, the mycellium could be eaten or detached in one way or another, thus creating the transport of mercury to other biological places after the animals degradation or extretion. It would probably be best to go at it as we know how.
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ScavengerType
I am Jack's wasted life
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 4,526
Loc: your mom's place
Last seen: 17 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Battery acid? [Re: DrOli]
#10605825 - 07/01/09 08:15 PM (8 months, 4 days ago) |
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dr.oily is right. one of the problems would be other compounds either created or left from this reaction, but I'd still say science can be one step at a time, so discus it.
Though I've heard one African doctor (Jewish in decent though not by religion) caused aids by cross-contaminating his polio vaccinations (created in monkey kidneys) with the monkey virus of aids. I should remind mycologist right now that sterile procedures are important as are having clean substrate, no mater if it is polio and you are an underfunded doctor. Weather or not that is the cause of aids sterile procedures are still important.
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"In reality high profits tend much more to raise the price of work than high wages. Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people."
- Adam Smith: The Wealth of Nations (1776)
Conquer's Club
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iluvfungi
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Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 329
Loc: .
Last seen: 2 days, 18 hours
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bacteria is better then fungi for fighting chemicals, because it mutates faster, thus a higher probability for creating a strain that can do something productive.
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