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 ChiefGreenLeaf
Cherriest of All Humans
 
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,409
Loc: Pineal Gland
Last seen: 7 months, 10 days
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 Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me
#10565640 - 06/24/09 02:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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DON'T TALK ABOUT THE WEATHER
so here is the deal, whenever this "chemtrails" issue is discussed people seem to get extremely offended and say things like...
"you have no brain"
"you are paranoid"
"you are crazy"
but they never seem to tell me why my beliefs are crazy, they just are.
so...
since so many people are so passionate about telling me how wrong I am, I am offering a chance for them to "save me". I want to be shown where my reasoning becomes illogical and just plain wrong.
I picked this documentary because it contains some very good video footage of the phenomenon and then attempts to explain it in a scientific and historical context. All of its assertions are laid out in a easy to understand logical progression that I think makes total sense.
I am inviting everyone to correct me where they see fit. Mods if you feel this needs to go into a different forum then by all means...
I really want this thread to be about coming to the truth of the matter and not a "I'm right your wrong" war. If somebody can show me where the video makes a mistake or bends the truth too much then direct me to it and we can start some discussion from there. I want us to truly learn from this. We can't deny the fact that this phenomenon is being documented all over the world so what is going on?
So if you've gotten this far then click the above link and take some notes. I appreciate everyone's time. Thank you.
-the chief-
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ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."
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 OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,361
Loc: Luxor
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 Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#10565711 - 06/24/09 03:07 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Seeing as how you have not made a single statement to rebut... 
Please debunk the dictionary. TY.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,754
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#10565810 - 06/24/09 03:25 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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i see thees cuntrails all the time you mean to tell me they aren't naduarl?
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Don't worry be happy.
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ChiefGreenLeaf
Cherriest of All Humans
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,409
Loc: Pineal Gland
Last seen: 7 months, 10 days
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#10566344 - 06/24/09 05:14 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Seeing as how you have not made a single statement to rebut...
Please debunk the dictionary. TY.
I see what your saying orgone. I could make many statements arguing the existence of chemtrails, but I thought that might 'color' the entire thread with a 'chemtrails exist' stance.
it seems to me that a lot of the "rational people" won't even look at the information that chemtrails POSSIBLY exist. they just scoff at the entire notion with no investigation. so much for being open-minded.
I thought if I let the video represent my side of the argument it would encourage a critique on the information itself and not a personal "your just stupid" type argument.
instead of tearing me apart for believing in chemtrails, just have at the video. I'm afraid though that a lot of people will just shrug this off as a "waste of their time" or "this is just a stupid youtube video". I hope someone will prove me wrong.
--------------------
ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 9 months, 19 days
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#10566477 - 06/24/09 05:41 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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That video is 27 parts. I'm not watching 27parts worht of osmething I think is stupid.
Quote:
but I thought that might 'color' the entire thread with a 'chemtrails exist' stance.
The title of your thread is prove they don't exist. Also, you admit you believe in them. And further more why are you afraid of that
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Worry Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 6,754
Loc: Sugar Town
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#10566499 - 06/24/09 05:46 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChiefGreenLeaf said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Seeing as how you have not made a single statement to rebut...
Please debunk the dictionary. TY.
I see what your saying orgone. I could make many statements arguing the existence of chemtrails, but I thought that might 'color' the entire thread with a 'chemtrails exist' stance.
it seems to me that a lot of the "rational people" won't even look at the information that chemtrails POSSIBLY exist. they just scoff at the entire notion with no investigation. so much for being open-minded.
I thought if I let the video represent my side of the argument it would encourage a critique on the information itself and not a personal "your just stupid" type argument.
instead of tearing me apart for believing in chemtrails, just have at the video. I'm afraid though that a lot of people will just shrug this off as a "waste of their time" or "this is just a stupid youtube video". I hope someone will prove me wrong.
dont be so defensive breathe that barium oxide deeply aaahhhh feels good dont it?
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Don't worry be happy.
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sterbeklang
w/e
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 824
Loc: Filthy Rock
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#10566636 - 06/24/09 06:13 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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You've watched the documentary right, GreenLeaf? So why can't you detail all the evidence, write it down, edit it, narrow it down, edit it some more, rewrite it, make a synopsis and present it to us in a format that doesn't require us to watch 27 videos we don't want to watch? You need to do some work if you want to convert non-believers. It's not going to happen overnight.
(Actually... this is a pet peeve of mine... people who post long articles they didn't write or long videos they didn't make, tell us to go spend our precious time soaking up THEIR interests, then report back here to acknowledge them. But I'll let you off the hook today because you're obviously going through hard times. Normally I would ignore you, just to keep from flaming you myself and getting banned. Trust me when I tell you I'm trying to be kind and helpful, because I have a very close friend with similar beliefs as yours and even though I don't share those beliefs, I like her. We get along well. There is no easy way out of this. You have to put forth some serious personal effort. Unfortunately, she won't put forth the effort either... which just ads to the disbelief. This is your mission. Make it your own. I don't care if you have to go get a degree in Aerospace Engineering... just DO IT. It's up to YOU to tell the world the truth.  )
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,197
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: sterbeklang]
#10568032 - 06/24/09 10:43 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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That video is several hours long at least. Could you make a few statements, like, what does the video state the chemtrails are made of, and the intention in putting them up there?
Offhand, I have read that in the right conditions, contrails can attract moisture and grow, but it does seem that some of the pictures show excessive numbers of contrails. It is possible that the more impressive pictures are taken close to airports, though that's just a guess.
Legitimate uses (secret or otherwise) could be cloud formation for rain, or as a way to combat global warming, though I'm not convinced the government actually believes in global warming.
If it was being used for some nefarious purpose, it would seem easier, more effective, and more target specific to spike the water supply or food supply. And there is questionable information. For instance, it's quite hard to sample a chemtrail. Why are believers so sure it's composed of metallic particles?
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,787
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: Rahz]
#10568238 - 06/24/09 11:22 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
it seems to me that a lot of the "rational people" won't even look at the information that chemtrails POSSIBLY exist. they just scoff at the entire notion with no investigation. so much for being open-minded.
That is incorrect. Rational people do have an open mind, they consider if chemtrails exist and come to the conclusion they do not. Just because they don't come to the same conclusion as you doesn't mean they didn't have an open mind and investigate.
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Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 4,197
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: DieCommie]
#10568285 - 06/24/09 11:29 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I will admit it's "possible" that chemtrails exist. I mean, I don't trust the government. But it's a big jump from possibility to truth.
What should we investigate? Beyond all the conjecture, and video of what appears to be contrails, what is there to investigate?
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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jivJaN
yes
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,054
Last seen: 5 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#10568949 - 06/25/09 02:03 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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OH shit.
i had to interrupt watching the video immediately.
i see that shit constantly when im outside.
ever since my first time with the mushroom.
CONSTANTLY. just like in the video... and only at night.
its almost annoying sometimes.
going back to watching the video.
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All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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jivJaN
yes
Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,054
Last seen: 5 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: jivJaN]
#10568966 - 06/25/09 02:10 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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looks like i interrupted watching it too soon.
the ones i see are only at night.. and look like the ones at the beginning , when they're going really fast.
its more like shooting stars.. only they're made out of just light... and they disappear very quickly.
could be my hppd with all the phone lines
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---------------------
All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,292
Loc: Americas
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: DieCommie]
#10569004 - 06/25/09 02:21 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Qubit said:
Quote:
it seems to me that a lot of the "rational people" won't even look at the information that chemtrails POSSIBLY exist. they just scoff at the entire notion with no investigation. so much for being open-minded.
That is incorrect. Rational people do have an open mind, they consider if chemtrails exist and come to the conclusion they do not. Just because they don't come to the same conclusion as you doesn't mean they didn't have an open mind and investigate.
He also seemed to pick pretty ridiculous straw man "arguments" to represent the other side. Calling someone crazy isn't an argument, everybody can agree.
RE: chemtraisl claims
How can anyone believe someone's claim based on observational study and analysis when we don't know what the data is, what the methodology used to collect it was, what the analysis was and why, and what the conclusions were and why? They'll make an hour long video but won't do some simple writeups with their evidence and reasoning so that others may replicate their findings?
I've no interest in watching a long video. I watched part of it previously and it was the usual shit: no description of methodology and analysis and conclusory statements that are impossible to support. If there is an argument the proponents should make it rather than editing video of pointless shit. Its not difficult to provide this information, the only thing I can conclude is that they don't care at all about convincing rational people, or that they know a description of their means of methodology, data, analysis, and such will not support their conclusions. Either way, it doesn't speak highly for the beliefs being promoted when a fifth grader's science fair volcano has more robust investigations and writeups then the whole of the chemtrail advocates' efforts.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 36,989
Loc: Colorado 
Last seen: 5 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#10569490 - 06/25/09 06:29 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChiefGreenLeaf said:
it seems to me that a lot of the "rational people" won't even look at the information that chemtrails POSSIBLY exist. they just scoff at the entire notion with no investigation. so much for being open-minded.
I'm pretty open-minded. And I believe some unusual things, like that there are bigfoots.
ut I can't make any sense out of chemtrails. I don't understand why 'aluminum' is supposed to matter anyway, since it is inert. Or why the stuff is being sprayed some places and not others. I don't understand why it's being sprayed and not just put in our water. Or put in food.
Mostly, I don't understand the idea that thousands and thousands of people are keeping this secret. That to me seems utterly absurd. There's just no way that every single person involved maintains perfect silence, it's humanly impossible.
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Visionary Tools
I <3 Thomas Jefferson
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 5,453
Last seen: 2 hours, 2 minutes
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#10570067 - 06/25/09 10:00 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChiefGreenLeaf said:
DON'T TALK ABOUT THE WEATHER
so here is the deal, whenever this "chemtrails" issue is discussed people seem to get extremely offended and say things like...
"you have no brain"
"you are paranoid"
"you are crazy"
but they never seem to tell me why my beliefs are crazy, they just are.
so...
since so many people are so passionate about telling me how wrong I am, I am offering a chance for them to "save me". I want to be shown where my reasoning becomes illogical and just plain wrong.
I picked this documentary because it contains some very good video footage of the phenomenon and then attempts to explain it in a scientific and historical context. All of its assertions are laid out in a easy to understand logical progression that I think makes total sense.
I am inviting everyone to correct me where they see fit. Mods if you feel this needs to go into a different forum then by all means...
I really want this thread to be about coming to the truth of the matter and not a "I'm right your wrong" war. If somebody can show me where the video makes a mistake or bends the truth too much then direct me to it and we can start some discussion from there. I want us to truly learn from this. We can't deny the fact that this phenomenon is being documented all over the world so what is going on?
So if you've gotten this far then click the above link and take some notes. I appreciate everyone's time. Thank you.
-the chief-
K, I'll debunk it
Everything's fine. No government ever has talked about geo engineering. These new cloud formations are just because people haven't been paying attention to the sky for the past sixty million years. Planes sometimes have short trails, or long and lingering trails. Who knows why? It's a mystery. Whatever it is, it's certainly safe, because who'd ever knowingly, or unknowingly poison their own people?
Or just, y'know. Watch the film, pause it when there's something you disagree with, and put it into google.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,539
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: johnm214]
#10570096 - 06/25/09 10:06 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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All the chem trail folk in my town wear tin foil hats. 
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 9 months, 19 days
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: Visionary Tools]
#10570376 - 06/25/09 10:59 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Visionary Tools said:
Planes sometimes have short trails, or long and lingering trails. Who knows why? It's a mystery. Whatever it is, it's certainly safe, because who'd ever knowingly, or unknowingly poison their own people?
Or just, y'know. Watch the film, pause it when there's something you disagree with, and put it into google.
Really? You're just going to be sarcastic and assume you are correct? As to the above statement, we know why planes of contrails... it's condensation and water vapor... wow so scary.
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,361
Loc: Luxor
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: Icelander]
#10570522 - 06/25/09 11:24 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
All the chem trail folk in my town wear tin foil hats.
And those that don't are fanboys of Walsh. You and V must feel very lonely living among the gullible.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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ChiefGreenLeaf
Cherriest of All Humans
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,409
Loc: Pineal Gland
Last seen: 7 months, 10 days
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#10570796 - 06/25/09 12:16 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
sterbeklang said:
You've watched the documentary right, GreenLeaf? So why can't you detail all the evidence, write it down, edit it, narrow it down, edit it some more, rewrite it, make a synopsis and present it to us in a format that doesn't require us to watch 27 videos we don't want to watch? You need to do some work if you want to convert non-believers. It's not going to happen overnight.
Well I'm not going to spend 5 hours pulling together all that information just so others can shit all over me (like 90% of the replies in here).
The video is there, it's only two hours. I've already tried just pulling up the sources from the movie and presenting them. Here let me show you, this was from another thread that started into this disscusion.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2001/hr2977.html
Why the fuck would our government right bills about things that didn't exist?
Quote:
(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--
(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;
(ii) CHEMTRAILS;
(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;
(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;
(v) laser weapons systems;
(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and
(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.
Please, I challenge a skeptic to debunk this.
and this...
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c15/v3c15-1.htm
and the reply...
Quote:
beatyou said:
Lol, that is your proof? A random bill that didn't even pass through the house? Your 'proof' was never even signed into law, and bills can be written by ANYONE. That bill in particular is so weak it was introduced for review and killed the same day. This is a completely insignificant document, thanks for playing though! Maybe if you actually knew how to critically think and use your brain/read you would know this.
Like I already said, this is one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories out there and it is hilarious you uneducated simple minded mother fuckers buy into any youtube vid you see online with no research or work done on your part.
Just cause you don't understand clouds & the atmosphere doesn't mean the govt is out to get you.
Post some more 'gotcha' docs lol
so you can see how I've been abused. I'm so delicate now...
--------------------
ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."
|
OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,361
Loc: Luxor
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Re: Please debunk this chemtrail documentary for me [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#10570861 - 06/25/09 12:27 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Please, I challenge a skeptic to debunk this.
I challenge you to prevent two or three clear concise ideas and you may get an actual discussion. Rambling all over the place and then whining will get you exactly what you got.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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