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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: daytripper05]
    #11770772 - 01/05/10 03:42 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Had these people eaten your other mushrooms?

My FOAFs say my regular shrooms are better than anything they've ever had. Again and again, different strains, whatever.
I think it's all the love I use. :heartpump:


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #11772100 - 01/05/10 06:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I think with the time and agar effort ANY strain can be that WOW strain, you just need to get a good isolate. :mushroom2:


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: 13shrooms]
    #11772337 - 01/05/10 07:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That I don't know 13. I wonder about the PE's potency and lean more to the side of the reason it is more potent is that the fruit bodies are alot more dense than most cubes. But I wonder if there are different chemicals in it that have not been uncovered.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: mister]
    #11773135 - 01/05/10 08:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

how on earth could there be undiscovered new active chemicals in a strain of cubes?? :confused:


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Cyanesense]
    #11773154 - 01/05/10 08:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I've always wondered if the different levels of different alkaloids have an effect. Potentiate each other, or whatever.
But I have no way to even begin to explore the concept, you'd need quite a lab.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #11774361 - 01/06/10 12:27 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I rarely grow... and when I do, they ain't cubes (usually). So, sadly, I am the wrong person to do this work.

That said... a simple extraction of multiple 'Strains' including PE would be a good way to start. Which one extracts the most lovin'?

What else could be done?

I also suspect that PE is not only potent, but unique. A PE trip does not exactly seem like a cube trip so psylocibin may not be the only thing which makes it tick.


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Edited by Rose (01/06/10 05:05 PM)

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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
    #11774639 - 01/06/10 02:04 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Haha:tongue2:! I laugh because the above mentioned ideas were something I thought about, when I was writing my last post in this thread. In the end, I decided to write something that that is -at least a little- less speculative.

Quote:

I wonder about the PE's potency and lean more to the side of the reason it is more potent is that the fruit bodies are a lot more dense than most cubes




I thought about this, but then came to the conclusion, that in terms of weight, you don't make any differences between PE and other strains.
However, I thought about the density as a factor, that prevents the the "inner parts" of the fruit body to get into contact with air and therefore the active compounds to react with oxygen, making it lose less "magic material" than strains that are more "thin walled".
But this again would mean, that any huge ass and dense specimen of no matter what strain, would be extra potent. But this is obviously not the case (actually  all the times I consumed very big specimens, they appeared to be weaker than smaller ones (have to say, that I let them let mature pretty much).

Another thought of mine, was (and this is most vague, because It's based only on pictures of people posting their harvests around here, while I don't really know how long they regularly wait until they harvest other, normal looking Cubes) that PE fruits are regularly harvested in earlier maturity states, maybe because it's a lot harder to see weather they're mature or not.
Single specimens flat their caps a little, while most of them don't do it all. So in the end, this would mean, that you actually harvest pre mature specimens, that didn't really had the opportunity to lose potency (bringing us back to the veil break theory).
As I said: very vague:tongue2:

Maybe it has something to do with poor spore production. Energy that is spared to produce more active chemicals:shrug: (for what ever reason)

Quote:

how on earth could there be undiscovered new active chemicals in a strain of cubes?? :confused:




When we take a look at the genus Gymnopilus, more precise on the species Gymnopilus spectabilis, we notice, that -although -up until now- the microscopic features are the same- the species is active in the US, Japan and Canada, while in Europe it isn't. In addition there was a new active -yet unknown- chemical found in Japanese specimens.

Quote:

I've always wondered if the different levels of different alkaloids have an effect. Potentiate each other, or whatever.




So did I. And it seems, that this is very likely.
When we take the yet gathered knowledge about the alkaloid content of different species, we can roughly calculate the potential amounts of Psilocin, Psilocybin and Baeocystin, contained in the particular specimens of a species.
Now, when we take 2,5 gram of Psilocybe cubensis and another time only about 1,2 gr. Psilocybe azurescens or Panaeolus cyanescens or 1,5 gr. of Psilocybe cyanescens etc. we notice, that the effect of the Cubes isn't as intense as the effect of the other species we consumed, although -in terms of calculation- Psilocybe cubensis should have contained more active substance, than the other consumed species.
While this might have something to do with the time the compounds need to be absorbed by the "body" (a smaller amount won't take as long to be filtered for activeness as a larger amount), we notice a difference in the style of the trips.
Now I speck from my experience:
Cubes appear to be a species, that brain fucks you pretty hard, while providing only little visual alternation when dosed moderately. On the other hand they seem to be very "friendly" and produce tons of giggles.
Azures and Cyans (so wood loving mushrooms) seem to be much more visual, but also "darker" and more earthy in their trip. They seem to provide a more mystical trip, that's pretty emotional.
Copes are the most visual species in my experience, while mostly leaving your emotions alone (at least when dosed low).

As I said, what they have all in common is, that they appear to be MUCH stronger, even when calculation says something different:shrug:

BTW: I've tested all sorts of Psilocybin extractions and the effects of extracted Psilocybin is completely different from the effects of whole fruits (at least in my experience)
So I suspect a strong interaction of chemicals, beside the one of Psilocin and Baeocystin.

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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
    #11774641 - 01/06/10 02:05 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Good to see you back Fahk!




Thanks! Good to be back:stoned:

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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
    #11775806 - 01/06/10 10:36 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Proof of what you just said.

Can you prove PE is more potent? I'd love to be able to prove that point. I can't.

Can you prove the other PE 'Strains' are 'The same'?

You made a blanket statement, and I'd love to see you back it up with something solid... otherwise you are at risk of spreading misinformation.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but stating opinion as fact can cause problems.




Even RR agrees that something about PE makes it more potent. I dunno why, but those that have consumed it also agree.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #11777821 - 01/06/10 04:23 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushroomhunter10 said:

Even RR agrees that something about PE makes it more potent. I dunno why, but those that have consumed it also agree.




*MOST of those who have consumed it agree.

Again Mush, you made a blanket statement and disguised it as fact. I suspect you are correct... but you can not back up what you said with proof.

Mutant cubes tend to 'seem' more potent... but that may simply have to do with how they look. If someone eats a weird looking mushroom, it may give them the impression that the mushroom is more special than an average shroom. That change in mindset alone might impact a person's perception of potency.

More work needs to be done.

Like Fahk said, this is just speculation. There is a lot of evidence but no proof that PE is more potent than the average cube.

I'd love to see some REAL research done on this particular topic.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
    #11778031 - 01/06/10 04:50 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Agreed Cervantes, would love to get thois avalance rolling to finally crack the mystery.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
    #11779181 - 01/06/10 07:27 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Quote:

mushroomhunter10 said:

Even RR agrees that something about PE makes it more potent. I dunno why, but those that have consumed it also agree.




*MOST of those who have consumed it agree.

Again Mush, you made a blanket statement and disguised it as fact. I suspect you are correct... but you can not back up what you said with proof.

Mutant cubes tend to 'seem' more potent... but that may simply have to do with how they look. If someone eats a weird looking mushroom, it may give them the impression that the mushroom is more special than an average shroom. That change in mindset alone might impact a person's perception of potency.

More work needs to be done.

Like Fahk said, this is just speculation. There is a lot of evidence but no proof that PE is more potent than the average cube.

I'd love to see some REAL research done on this particular topic.




I wholeheartedly agree that a placebo effect could play a role. They're sure potent to me though!!


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #11779263 - 01/06/10 07:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Make capsules of PE and some B+, give to friends without saying which is which. Note reactions. Repeat.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #11779397 - 01/06/10 07:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It's too bad a sample couldn't be lab tested.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: nexus1946]
    #11779421 - 01/06/10 07:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Just a matter of getting a lab together. One day soon, I'll find a GCMS on eBay...


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #11780733 - 01/06/10 10:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The capsules idea isn't bad.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #11781228 - 01/07/10 01:26 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

This would have to be done with MANY people and MANY times. Not impossible. But a pain in the ass to do.

There's SO many factors that play a role in terms of subjective potency perception (such as set, setting, food, general mood etc.), that this would have to be done over a long distance of time. Not to forget the potential different potency within the same grow, different flushes, different phenotypes, when cultivated from multispore knock ups etc, time of storage etc.

This is actually the reason for me not to make any final statements about the potency of different cube strains. As far as I can remember, I had different perceptions of potency of every single strain I've tested more than once yet.

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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Fahkface]
    #11781687 - 01/07/10 05:09 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You would just have to gather data as you went along. It might not take that long before a pattern showed up.
Or if there is no pattern, that tells you something too.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #11781720 - 01/07/10 05:34 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That and extractions... from say 3-5 different isolates of multiple cubes plus PE.

Not hard to do... but we'd need someone willing to do the leg work.

I already made this mutha'fucka' of a thread... now it is somebody else's turn.

Takers?

Let's prove this bitch!


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
    #11781739 - 01/07/10 05:52 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
That and extractions... from say 3-5 different isolates of multiple cubes plus PE.



I think you'd get more applicable results from multispore grows. Isolates might be abnormally weak or strong, but a MS grow should average out.

Extract or capsules, either way would work. :thumbup: You could even double-blind it if you had somebody else preparing the items.


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