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Offlinerickaston
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Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd
    #10330392 - 05/13/09 02:08 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Hello.  My friend has recently sent my photos of penis envy Mycl. colonizing rye substrate.  The rye was soaked for 24 hours and loaded up and PC'd for an hour.  Roughly half the jars were fully colonized but half have came to a stand still, ranging from 40-70% colonization.  The problem seems to be...

-they rye grain seems too dry in some places and the Mycl. stopped growing there...

-the rye is almost drench and the Mycl. stopped growing there.

My questions are three.

1.  Is there anything my friend can do to correct the situation?  If my friend still does a casing with these jars will the Mycl. fully colonize under the verm. layer? or will it (most likely) get contams?

2. Did my friend pack the jars with too much wet rye there fore there is not enough room to shake and circulate the jars?

3. My friend didn't put AL foil over the jars in the PC as my friend was probably afraid there would be too much pressure and it would blow out the tyvek covering.  Is this a reasonable fear?  Could this have caused the water to not be properly dist'd?

Bonus: what is some good, non-mainstream or old music?

Any help from experts would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you in advance.  Live long and prosperous.

-bdvs


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd [Re: rickaston]
    #10330443 - 05/13/09 02:26 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Looks like bacteria.  I'll bet if you take a whiff, the jars stink.  At any rate, there's no saving them.  When grain jars stall and look like that, toss them.
RR


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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10331174 - 05/13/09 08:20 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Bacteria? really? I was always under the impression that bacteria was either green, gray or black (virtually never white).  What makes you think it is bacteria and not myc? Do you think they are both bacteria or just the wetter one?

Here is a high res version of  the wet one...


Thanks for the input already!


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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd [Re: rickaston]
    #10331183 - 05/13/09 08:24 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

No bacteria is most evedient by smell, its not always visable, moulds are what produce spores and thats why you see nasty green, grey black pink etc.

Looks like bacteria, especially in the second pic the mycelium that was formed a solid wall and stopped, that usualy means it has run up against something else.

Check your sterile procedures and your sterilisation methods. Make sure to PC for atleast 90 minutes at 15 psi, if your pressure cooker is less (10-12 psi) cook for 2 hours.

You say you soaked, then loaded into jars, did you not simmer your rye for 10 minutes and allow to steam dry while shaking the grains every few minutes to allow the water to evaporate off?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd [Re: rickaston]
    #10331413 - 05/13/09 10:41 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

rickaston said:
Bacteria? really? I was always under the impression that bacteria was either green, gray or black (virtually never white). 

Here is a high res version of  the wet one...


Thanks for the input already!




That's bacteria.  Don't confuse bacteria with molds, which are usually green, gray, or black, but nearly ALWAYS white before they sporulate.

Toss that jar out.  When you open it, you'll smell the sweet 'garbage' smell and after that, you should be able to detect it through the filter, if you can't tell by looking.
RR


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd (moved) [Re: rickaston]
    #10331416 - 05/13/09 10:42 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.

Reason:
Contamination forum topic.


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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd (moved) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10332870 - 05/13/09 05:08 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

I've gone through a number of jars because of a contaminated print and simply because I messed up my moisture levels of my grain.

First I was about right but thought it was too dry. Next I make the grain wetter by filling the jars quicker after the simmer. Jars were way too wet and popped some grains like I see you have. My last set of jars look perfect and I have 70% colonisation after 10 days.

My method is to soak the grain for 24 hours with a table spoon of gypsum. I very slowly bring the grain so a gentle boil (about 30 minutes to get to a boil) and empty it into strainers then rinse with hot tap water. I toss the grains every few minutes for 30 minutes or so then every so often for the next 3-4 hours. Then I load the jars and PC in my 8PSI PC for 2 hours. Make sure you put the jars in the PC with cold water and gently bring the temerature up until it is steaming then let sit for 20 minutes. Make sure the water level doesn't go over the lids. This will bring your jars and grain up to temperature and will stop your jars cracking and your grain from popping. PC as normal after this.

Dont rush it. Dont ever put your stove top to high. A slow and steady increase in temperature is key.


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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd (moved) [Re: ShroomWhore]
    #10333701 - 05/13/09 07:47 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Whoa. . .Put the stove on high to heat it. To do otherwise is just wasting time.  Jars don't break in the warm up phase, they break in the cooldown if you release the pressure instead of letting the PC cool naturally.  They'll also break if you pack them in tight, not allowing room to expand. Another cause of breakage is sealed jars.  You must provide filtered vents in the lids. You don't need more than an inch of water in the bottom of the PC.  The jars are on a shelf or trivet above the bottom of the PC, so the stove heats the water and the water then makes steam which heats the jars.  I always start with cold water, but within five to ten minutes steam is escaping and ten minutes after that I close the valve or put the weight on to build pressure.

Where you're getting your moisture content screwed up is by rinsing after the boil.  One of the main functions of the boil is to get the grains hot so they'll steam off the excess moisture from their surface.  Rinsing defeats the purpose.  After rinsing, the grains cool off, and the water sticks to them by adhesion, no matter how long you let them 'drain'.  No water drips out after the first three or four minutes.

Follow the grain prep tek on my website or find where I've posted it here.  That will get your moisture content perfect.  After that, follow proper PC procedure which means to be sure to let all the air vent from the PC before placing the weight on, and then to follow proper sterile procedure after the grains are sterilized.
RR


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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd [Re: veda_sticks]
    #10334689 - 05/13/09 10:43 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Wow I guess I never really thought of bacteria as a threat.  Thanks for the information I will tell my friend to throw it out.  He did simmer after PCing but he only PC'd (psi 15) for 40 min. as when he PC'd before he left it on for an hour and a half by accident and it melted the Tyvek and the grain was scorched black on the bottom of the jars and he was afraid of doing that again. If mushrooms grow on a half mold/half Myc. casing is there a good chance they could be deadly if consumed or is that a myth? 

Two of my casings have a grayier looking Myc.


Two have a fuzzy white Myc.


Just watched your video on your site RR and wow the video is well done and you voice sounds amazing!  My jars were nothing like that though they were completely full and soaking wet! Yikes!  A properly colonized jar should smell like mushrooms, no? 


Thanks for all the help so far guys! I guess no one liked the bonus question... :frown:


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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd [Re: rickaston]
    #10335607 - 05/14/09 01:51 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

If mushrooms grow on a half mold/half Myc. casing is there a good chance they could be deadly if consumed or is that a myth?




Myth.

Get rid of the digital hygrometer.  They're crap and you can't trust any readings they give.

I PC grains for 90 minutes and it doesn't melt the tyvek or burn the grains.  You're probably letting the PC run dry or failing to use a trivet to lift the jars off the bottom.  If you don't have a trivet, make one with extra jar lids.  Don't let the glass sit on the bottom of the PC near all that heat from the stove burner.
RR


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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10382059 - 05/22/09 03:24 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

My friend is new to growing Penis Envy and has only grown B + to my knowledge.  He sent me the following pics yesterday.  He is not sure if this is massive bacterial growth or pinning.  Any experienced opinions would be appreciated



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Re: Myc. not fully colonizing in rye-grain jars after being PC'd [Re: rickaston]
    #10384656 - 05/23/09 03:01 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Penis envy mutates frequently. Those are just mushrooms that well...failed to become actual mushrooms. They are still fine to use and some people say even more potent.

Usually looks normal by the second flush.


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Mold or Bruising? [Re: Shrink]
    #10399504 - 05/26/09 01:52 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)


This is a Penis Envy casing.  It looks as though it has mutating greatly (as PE has been known to do) but there is also much green/blue color on the mutations.  Is this con-tams or bruising? If it is con-tams is it safe to consume?


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Re: Mold or Bruising? [Re: rickaston]
    #10400632 - 05/26/09 09:10 AM (5 years, 3 months ago)

for the thousandth time

bruising is the colour of mycelium itself

mould is like coloured sand ontop of the mycelium

UTSE

you will find that exact discription and some others posted many times by myself, RR and many others


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


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Re: Mold or Bruising? [Re: veda_sticks]
    #10403745 - 05/26/09 09:13 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry my English friend, I did not mean to anger you.  But i know for a fact that bruisng is not the same color as the myc (myc is white and bruising is blue) so I'm not sure if I understand what you are trying to say...The pic doesn't really do the discoloration justice.  It is a darker green discoloration than it looks.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Contamination Forum

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