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 mushroomhunter10
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 Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
#10312140 - 05/09/09 08:47 AM (3 years, 20 days ago) |
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Perhaps evolution was designed.
Especially since I'm an IT professional, I really like the question of "Where did the source code come from?".
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
#10312204 - 05/09/09 09:05 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Mushrooms said:
I always prefer the iconoclasts, probably because I am one.
I suppose I am too, more of the fanatics than anything. Especially ones that would kill, for a religion of peace. Makes no sense to enforce religion by disobeying its teachings.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
#10312230 - 05/09/09 09:13 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
And yes, you are right, the 250 proteins in order are of such a magnitude, given that neither chance nor natural law could have created the sequence, intelligent design is the best answer we have.
They couldn't have?
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 OrgoneConclusion
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312289 - 05/09/09 09:32 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
I too, feel that Intelligent Design is more plausible than evolution
And science is all about gut feelings... 
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#10312304 - 05/09/09 09:38 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Darwinism is flawed though, that's the whole point of science... to be able to question current dogma with evidence to back the claim.
No?
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laserpig
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312356 - 05/09/09 09:53 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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The reason scientists pretty much universally dislike intelligent design is that it's distinctly not scientific.
Now I'm not saying it is or is not valid, I'm merely suggesting that the way the scientific community reacts to ID is entirely understandable.
ID cannot be researched and it cannot be confirmed or disproven through experiment.
It is not a theory, it is an assertion.
Once you have your hypothesis of "a higher power dictates the physical form of life" ... where do you go from there?
How do you check that assumption? Where do you look to compare, what tests do you run?
That's the scientific community's problem with ID. It's cannot be investigated with scientific method ... and scientific method is seen as pretty much sacred among scientists, because it is the one and only process which has been shown to reliably differentiate between facts and guesswork throughout history.
I'm not claiming ID is wrong and I'm not taking the side of the scientists, but surely you all can understand WHY they have such a negative reaction to ID being taught or discussed as science -- something which cannot be scientifically investigated is not science, and that's been the distinction for centuries.
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: laserpig]
#10312371 - 05/09/09 09:57 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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On the other end of the spectrum, evolution can't prove how life began either.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312385 - 05/09/09 10:02 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Strawman of the Day award! 
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laserpig
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312388 - 05/09/09 10:02 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushroomhunter10 said:
On the other end of the spectrum, evolution can't prove how life began either.
Um ... actually it can?
Experiments have already proven that almost every single precursor to living cells could easily have formed spontaneously in the shallow seas of ancient earth.
Granted, not every step in the chain is yet accounted for, but most of them are and the others have certainly not been proven impossible.
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: laserpig]
#10312419 - 05/09/09 10:11 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Yeah the precursors are 250 proteins, and lined-up perfectly too.
No way...
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Redstorm
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312431 - 05/09/09 10:16 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Improbable does not equal impossible.
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312436 - 05/09/09 10:16 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Argument from Incredulity Fallacy. 
BTW, it would actually help the discussion if you brought up one very specific point of the movie that you want to discuss and stuck with it instead of shotgunning.
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#10312463 - 05/09/09 10:25 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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The point that interests me the most is the 250 proteins argument.
They couldn't have just spontaneously formed, then lined-up. Something had a hand in building them and the source code of DNA.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312472 - 05/09/09 10:28 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
They couldn't have just spontaneously formed, then lined-up. Something had a hand in building them and the source code of DNA.
That is merely an assertion and not an argument.
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#10312485 - 05/09/09 10:33 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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So is the origin of life according to Darwin lol...
That's another point. Nobody knows, it's all about theory and both sides should be explored.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312513 - 05/09/09 10:46 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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*sigh*
Evolutionary Theory does not address abiogenesis.
What do you mean two sides? If you want to add pure fantasy into the mix with science then there are an infinite number of sides.
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#10312518 - 05/09/09 10:48 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Why call it "Origins of Life"?
Where is the fantasy? I don't follow.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312554 - 05/09/09 10:58 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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A supernatural explanation with no evidence other than amazement is called fantasy. Show an airplane to a primitive tribesman with no prior contact with modern inventions and they will tell you God/magic/spirits made the machine fly. Same-same.
How many religions are there? That is how many sides there are at a minimum, which is a lot more than two.
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laserpig
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312561 - 05/09/09 11:00 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushroomhunter10 said:
The point that interests me the most is the 250 proteins argument.
They couldn't have just spontaneously formed, then lined-up. Something had a hand in building them and the source code of DNA.
Which 250 proteins are these? Why 250?
Biological Science, Third Edition, Scott Freeman.
That's my current bio textbook. Cal Poly's standard intro book.
The first four chapters walk you through exactly how simple proteins, lipid membranes, and RNA can and did form spontaneously to create the first simple microcells.
Once that happened, the RNA was protected from outside forces by the lipid membranes and the cycle of life was started. From there, any interaction of protein and RNA which produced more stable RNA ... well, produced more stable RNA, which obviously persisted longer and produced more RNA. This isn't magic, this isn't complicated, and it isn't unlikely to have occurred. It's the way chemistry works -- those conditions just naturally can and will produce spontaneously replicating patterns. Randomness produces variation and variations which are more stable persist.
It irks me to see people say "evolution can't explain ____" when in reality they simply don't know the explanation for ____.
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
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Re: (Movie)Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - Ben Stein's Documentary. Intelligent Design Is Plausible. [Re: mushroomhunter10]
#10312575 - 05/09/09 11:05 AM (3 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Why call it "Origins of Life"?
Who calls 'it' that? 
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