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 mathewww
Lurker.
Registered: 10/17/07
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 Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. 
#10148347 - 04/11/09 05:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/12/10/fingerprint-drugs.html
Dec. 10, 2008 -- A careless touch could be all police or insurance companies need to determine not only your identity, but also your past drug use, if you've fired a gun or handled explosives, even specific medical conditions.
"A fingerprint is only good to identify a criminal if you already have their fingerprint on file," said David Russell, a professor at the University of East Anglia, who, along with Pompi Hazarika, helped developed the new technique, reported in the German journal, Angewandte Chemie. "This will give police new tools to help discover that identity."
For decades forensic scientists have dusted fingerprints with magnetic particles to reveal the hidden swirls and curls that differentiate each person on the planet. The iron oxide particles attach themselves to the tiny bits of water, minerals, and oils that accumulate on the fingers as they touch various objects and other parts of the body.
The new technique attaches the iron oxide particles to antibodies and suspends them both in a liquid solution, which is then drizzled over a fingerprint. If the chemical that a specific antibody targets is present, the molecules latch onto it and glow.
So far the scientists can detect five different drugs: THC (marijuana), cocaine, nicotine, methadone and a derivative of methadone. Other drugs, particularly opium-based drugs like heroine or morphine, should also be detectable, since antibodies already exist for them as well.
Drugs aren't the only chemicals the new tests could detect. Cancer, diabetes, heart disease and other medical conditions produce specific chemicals also secreted in sweat and oil. By tweaking the antibodies on the particles, forensic scientists could test for a variety of medical conditions. This could help police track down a suspect by, say, watching the local kidney dialysis clinic if the suspect has kidney failure.
On the other side, prosecutors could also use additional fingerprint information to convict criminals, or defenders could use it to help keep clients out of jail. If a fingerprint has the antibodies for, say, a genetic disease that a client doesn't have, a defender could use that information to raise doubts about the prosecutor's case.
The new fingerprint analysis doesn't only monitor the body's internal environment. It also reveals external information. If a person fires a gun or has handled explosive material, trace amounts of those chemicals are left on the hand, which can then be detected if the person leaves a fingerprint.
"I think this is quite important," said Graham Cooks, a professor of chemistry at Purdue University who does similar work. "Now you get the connection between the identity of the individual, through the physical fingerprint, and particular compounds, which are associated with the virtual fingerprint."
The technique will certainly help police gain more information about criminals, but there are privacy concerns for law abiding citizens, said Cooks.
"If I come to your office and leave a fingerprint on your desk, you now have a biomedical sample of me," said Cooks. "You can then proceed to find out as much information about me as you want," from what lotion you used that morning to what drugs you did last night.
Researches won't speculate on when the new fingerprint analysis will be commercially available to police departments or how expensive a commercial version will be. But they do say it will have to pass several tests to ensure the system doesn't produce false positives, or that a person who, for instance, didn't do drugs comes across as testing positive for cocaine.
"It'll be pretty cheap, but still more expensive than using normal magnetic powder," said Russell. "We envision that this would first be used for serious or high profile crimes like rape or murder."
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DragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy
Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: mathewww]
#10148374 - 04/11/09 05:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mathewww said:
"It'll be pretty cheap, but still more expensive than using normal magnetic powder," said Russell. "We envision that this would first be used for serious or high profile crimes like rape or murder."
And then we imagine it would be used against people who rock the boat, those who are deemed 'subversive', or perhaps just those that individual officers have grudges against.
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My name is Mud
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 Green_T
Getting to the chopper
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,024
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: DragonChaser]
#10148548 - 04/11/09 06:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think finding out about your past drug use by this method is an invasion of privacy... fuck that.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson
Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims
Their vial of acid, which is on the table over there, tastes vile because they're incompetent chemists.
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mr.bixby
Routine waxes cold
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1,246
Loc: The West is the Best
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: DragonChaser]
#10148597 - 04/11/09 06:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DragonChaser said:
Quote:
mathewww said:
"It'll be pretty cheap, but still more expensive than using normal magnetic powder," said Russell. "We envision that this would first be used for serious or high profile crimes like rape or murder."
And then we imagine it would be used against people who rock the boat, those who are deemed 'subversive', or perhaps just those that individual officers have grudges against.
Yeah it's always interesting how things like that evolve in government. Because no one will ever abuse their new found powers.
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marshalldylan1
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: mr.bixby]
#10148629 - 04/11/09 06:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think the ability to apply this to forensics is great. It's impossible these days to commit a murder and not leave something behind that traces you to the crime scene. And now this makes it even harder for a murderer to get away.
It just sucks that something that could help the forensics field so much will also be used to test people for what drugs they have done.
Sigh.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: mathewww]
#10148738 - 04/11/09 07:17 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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What sorts of countermeasures would work against this?
Would just a soap and water scrub be sufficient to remove all traces?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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marshalldylan1
Stranger
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: deCypher]
#10148772 - 04/11/09 07:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
What sorts of countermeasures would work against this?
Would just a soap and water scrub be sufficient to remove all traces?
Nah man, forensics is some crazy shit.
I doubt that would work.
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mr.bixby
Routine waxes cold
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1,246
Loc: The West is the Best
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: deCypher]
#10148781 - 04/11/09 07:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lava soap.......but seriously am wondering if shaving off one's fingerprints would work like in seven.
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mr.bixby
Routine waxes cold
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1,246
Loc: The West is the Best
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: mr.bixby]
#10148799 - 04/11/09 07:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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DNA, but there are ways to precaution about that isn't there?
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mr.bixby
Routine waxes cold
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1,246
Loc: The West is the Best
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: mr.bixby]
#10148804 - 04/11/09 07:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is it more of a myth that you can't get away with a murder or a reality?
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,569
Loc: Americas
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: deCypher]
#10148817 - 04/11/09 07:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
What sorts of countermeasures would work against this?
Would just a soap and water scrub be sufficient to remove all traces?
Yes, by their description, it would probably work.
There is no such thing as "all" in chemistry, generally, so it depends on the sensitivity of the test.
This is basically the technology that they use to do those dipstick drug tests and similar things.
The bigger problem here is the presumptions that will attach to a positive test result. I just don't like this stuff cuz it can and often is interpreted unreasonably.
Perhaps it will lead to some more silly drug prosecutions though, which might wake up the public and the law to how silly their present laws are. As it is, one molecule is enough to convict you of possesion- silly. Are we going to be prosecuting people cuz they have a days old trace from when they handled the spice rack at the supermarket?
Touching drugs isn't illegal, but they'll use that in the same way they use the cocaine tainted money and other bullshit. Of course the problem is they seldom present evidence to the courts that really matters, i.e. the amount of the general population that tests positive by these tests innocently, among other things.
Just telling a court the person tested positive would paint an unfair picture when the actual data shows that 50% of the US population does as well. The problem with these new tests is that often such data isn't available, and yet the information will be admited to judges and juries that don't understand it, and attorneys that have no idea what it means or how to defeat it.
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spud303
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: mr.bixby]
#10148826 - 04/11/09 07:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mr.bixby said:
Is it more of a myth that you can't get away with a murder or a reality?
Definite myth.
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this is my signature.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 53,700
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: spud303]
#10148830 - 04/11/09 07:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
spud303 said:
Quote:
mr.bixby said:
Is it more of a myth that you can't get away with a murder or a reality?
Definite myth.
Speaking from experience? 
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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DragonChaser
Ice in Her Ass and Pussy
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 6,175
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: spud303]
#10148862 - 04/11/09 07:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
spud303 said:
Quote:
mr.bixby said:
Is it more of a myth that you can't get away with a murder or a reality?
Definite myth.
People get away with murder all the time dude.
Only a fraction of all murders ever get solved.
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My name is Mud
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Noviseer
Percussion isFree
Registered: 03/18/03
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: spud303]
#10149083 - 04/11/09 09:03 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
spud303 said:
Quote:
mr.bixby said:
Is it more of a myth that you can't get away with a murder or a reality?
Definite myth.
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_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
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mr.bixby
Routine waxes cold
Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1,246
Loc: The West is the Best
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: Noviseer]
#10149152 - 04/11/09 09:20 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Noviseer said:
Quote:
spud303 said:
Quote:
mr.bixby said:
Is it more of a myth that you can't get away with a murder or a reality?
Definite myth.
I'm coming after you Noviseer, but I still think if I wanted to I could kill you. In all seriousness.
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mr.bixby
Routine waxes cold
Registered: 03/14/08
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Loc: The West is the Best
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: mr.bixby]
#10149161 - 04/11/09 09:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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TNT, I'm dynomite.
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Dutchie3k
Psychic Drifter
Registered: 12/16/08
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Loc: this hazy bubble, state o...
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: mr.bixby]
#10149227 - 04/11/09 09:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The technique will certainly help police gain more information about criminals, but there are privacy concerns for law abiding citizens
I can't tell you how sad it makes me that you can almost always count on that second part getting the shaft every time.
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"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. The others - the living - are those who pushed their control as far as they felt they could handle it, and then pulled back, or slowed down, or did whatever they had to when it came time to choose between Now and Later"
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Bugzy
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: mr.bixby]
#10149287 - 04/11/09 10:04 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The cost of this technology would proly be reserved for more serious crimes (murder an such). Sure they can find out what drugs you've done, and if you've ever fired a gun, but I highly doubt anything in our daily lives will be affected by this. And as far as employment screens and po testing, pointless. There is no way, at this point in time anyways, that can tell when you used anything at an exact time. Scare tactics. Unless you plan on being the president or shooting a high priority target, you have nothing to worry about. They cant even get fingerprinting right half the time in the first place, speaking from experience. Everytime I go to jail they get shit fucked up lol. All in all, just more bogus shit for our taxes to pay for- overpriced technology.
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American by Nature.... unamerican by Law 
"Out of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."
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SmokenBabyJesus
Smoker of Religious Figures
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Posts: 1,217
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: mathewww]
#10150096 - 04/12/09 02:07 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Time to break out the old gloves...
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"Where that boy at??"
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,569
Loc: Americas
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: Bugzy]
#10150132 - 04/12/09 02:20 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Bugzy said:
The cost of this technology would proly be reserved for more serious crimes (murder an such). Sure they can find out what drugs you've done, and if you've ever fired a gun, but I highly doubt anything in our daily lives will be affected by this. And as far as employment screens and po testing, pointless. There is no way, at this point in time anyways, that can tell when you used anything at an exact time. Scare tactics. Unless you plan on being the president or shooting a high priority target, you have nothing to worry about. They cant even get fingerprinting right half the time in the first place, speaking from experience. Everytime I go to jail they get shit fucked up lol. All in all, just more bogus shit for our taxes to pay for- overpriced technology.
These are cheap procedures and reagents.
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pasucks
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: marshalldylan1]
#10150818 - 04/12/09 08:34 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
marshalldylan1 said:
I think the ability to apply this to forensics is great. It's impossible these days to commit a murder and not leave something behind that traces you to the crime scene. And now this makes it even harder for a murderer to get away.
It just sucks that something that could help the forensics field so much will also be used to test people for what drugs they have done.
Sigh.
yea its almost impossible to shoot somebody in the street with a gun and not get away  most inner city murders go unsolved if theirs no suspect theirs no case.
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Dementous
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: pasucks]
#10151070 - 04/12/09 11:07 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you're that worried about being fingerprinted, then get yourself some hydrochloric acid and burn those babies off!
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Bugzy
Magician
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: johnm214]
#10151218 - 04/12/09 12:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Long range rifles and a hack saw does the trick. No weapon-No conviction. They make the mistake of criminals and such being able to learn and manipulate procedures. Their "new" tekniques are like computers, once you buy one, its shit and outdated next month.
Quote:
johnm214 said:
These are cheap procedures and reagents.
I was thinkin that this was more along the lines of of it being introduced as a replacement for the whole system. Which requires mods to local offices and such. And if anyones takin a look around latley, Im sure there are more important things that need attention like the economy, and keeping enough officers and such too patrol/investigate. Around here, we're layin cops and city officals like factory workers.
No big deal, just thrown my 2cents out there , interesting info none the less.
Remember- Long range rifles and dissassemble for sale after words, guns are like cars, they alll need parts sometime
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American by Nature.... unamerican by Law
"Out of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."
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Groomies
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: Bugzy]
#10151590 - 04/12/09 01:41 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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this is kinda stupid, just by touching money you would get shit on your fingers.
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Bugzy
Magician
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: Groomies]
#10152751 - 04/12/09 05:23 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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^ thats a good point.
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American by Nature.... unamerican by Law
"Out of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most."
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spud303
Pizza Punk.
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: deCypher]
#10153077 - 04/12/09 06:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
spud303 said:
Quote:
mr.bixby said:
Is it more of a myth that you can't get away with a murder or a reality?
Definite myth.
Speaking from experience?
Yes, I do speak from experience.
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this is my signature.
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DrugsRbadMkay
pin
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: spud303]
#10156681 - 04/13/09 10:16 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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What? you guise haven't burned yours off with acid yet?
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durian_2008
cornucopian eating an elephant
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: DrugsRbadMkay]
#10157067 - 04/13/09 12:38 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Remember a recent story, in which reagents gave false positives, as soon as they were exposed to air.
Smells like a racket.
There have been too many false positives, even when quantities weren't so minuscule.
I don't believe that procedures themselves are usually questioned on issues like these.
Especially when victimless crimes are concerned, I will always be suspicious that jurors are responding to perceived moral authority, rather than legitimate, accurate, observational science.
This is not to mention whether any tangible damages resulted from "tainted" fingerprints, such that a suspect could be held accountable for direct compensation.
In other words, if the contents of my fingerprints don't hurt anyone, they are none of your business.
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fltdriver82
Bow to your Mushroom God
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Loc: On a trip
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: SmokenBabyJesus]
#10157370 - 04/13/09 01:34 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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How long would drugs remain detectable, different time frames for different drugs I would assume. Hair tests can detect any drug used while the hair was growing, piss tests can detect only for certain length of time, mouth swabs for even less time.
Would the times be closer to piss test times or hair test times?
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,569
Loc: Americas
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: fltdriver82]
#10157456 - 04/13/09 01:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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probably urine test but it would very immensly depending upon the drug, the activity of the person, and the detection limit.
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creekfreek
Certified phunologist
Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 4,816
Loc: Right about here
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Re: Fingerprints Can Reveal Drug Use, Medical History. [Re: SmokenBabyJesus]
#10157482 - 04/13/09 01:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is just another piece of technology that is going to be used to pry into our private and personal lives.
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