|
 OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,358
Loc: Luxor
|
 Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Icelander]
#10115796 - 04/06/09 09:20 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Take the $200K and come to Vegas and party!
--------------------
This is your drain on brugs.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,525
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#10115808 - 04/06/09 09:22 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I find Vegas boring after about 6 hours.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Icelander]
#10115855 - 04/06/09 09:31 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: I'll take a machine gun and you get 1000 psychic supermen and we can place bets.
Technology certainly seems to be the most powerful form of magic, don't it.
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
|
zen buddy
not a buddhist
Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 704
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Icelander]
#10115897 - 04/06/09 09:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:
My evidence for this comes from the studies of Primate behavior. Bonobo's Chimps, Gorillas, humans.
From our basic drives and how we express them and our social structures and basic emotional and mental make up.
This is the book if you care to find out more and in depth. I have found no book more revealing and I give it my highest recommendation. Our Inner Ape by Frans De Waal Check it out if you dare.
"Two-against-one maneuvering is what lends chimpanzee power struggles both their richness and their danger. Coalitions are key. No male can rule by himself, at least not for long, because the group as a whole can overthrow anybody. Chimpanzees are so cleaver about banding together that a leader needs allies to fortify his position as well as the greater community's acceptance. Staying on top is a balancing act between forcefully asserting dominance, keeping supporters happy, and avoiding mass revolt. If this sounds familiar, it's because human politics works exactly the same"
That just a taste of the tip of the ice burg as far as evidence goes. This guy has studied primates for well over twenty years in the field and in captivity. It's one of the most interesting and revealing books I have ever read. You might find just about everything we do as individuals and as a group reflected in these other primate relatives. The contrast between bonobo and chimp behavior is especially revealing as far as violence goes and male vs female hierarchy.
I feel it is pretty obvious that although we do resemble these animals we have obviously evolved much further.
Some of us are obviously much more evolved than others. 
I also believe that the use of psychedelic drugs is somehow speeding up this process of evolution. Actually, I am pretty sure that the use of psychedelic drugs goes back far enough that human beings would not be who they are without them.
|
The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,027
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Icelander]
#10115915 - 04/06/09 09:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
We are animals, no evidence needed?
I agree its a great thing to go through, to realize that you are only an animal & really see & feel that truth.
So its a good thing to point out, but 'evidence'!? 
I saw a docu recently where the chimps were using tools & it shows the kind of societal hierachy etc...it was very cool to watch & realize how not far off we really are in many respects
The more you become aware of your animal nature, the more you begin to transcend it, thats why its so liberating to realize 'i am just an animal' cause in a subconcious way youve already transcended your animal nature by observing it within yourself. To observe it is to place it apart from yourself & transcend it.
This is subconscious for most though, so i don't expect you to 'agree', especially seeing as you don't beleive in all that crap anyway, right?
Humans have the potential to realize their Buddha nature which is beyond animal nature
No chimpanzee trys to become enlightened...
Edited by The Chronic (04/06/09 09:53 AM)
|
deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: The Chronic]
#10115922 - 04/06/09 09:47 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
No chimpanzee trys to become enlightened...
Perhaps they already are enlightened, and it is our more complicated, rational mind that makes us unenlightened.
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
|
The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,027
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: deCypher]
#10115933 - 04/06/09 09:50 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
If they were enlightened they wouldn't have been reborn
|
zen buddy
not a buddhist
Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 704
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Icelander]
#10115935 - 04/06/09 09:50 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said:
blistering psychic warfare
Practical demo of belief. I'll take a machine gun and you get 1000 psychic supermen and we can place bets. I'm willing to put up a few hundred grand.
I guess this all depends on what you would consider winning. The one with the machine gun might be able to kill everyone around them but who is really better off? Is the guy standing alone with a machine gun surrounded by dead bodies the one who won or the 1000 psychic superman who ascended to a better place? Or maybe the 1000 psychic superman would hear the guy with the machine gun coming and in the interest of survival, 1000 rocks to the head might do the trick.
|
zen buddy
not a buddhist
Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 704
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: deCypher]
#10115965 - 04/06/09 09:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
No chimpanzee trys to become enlightened...
Perhaps they already are enlightened, and it is our more complicated, rational mind that makes us unenlightened.
 ya, ok
|
deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: zen buddy]
#10115977 - 04/06/09 09:56 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
 , doesn't the animal truly live in the moment?
Shades of Eckharte Tolle's the Power of Now...
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
|
The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,027
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: deCypher]
#10116007 - 04/06/09 10:01 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Human beings are the only animal i have come across that are bothered about discovering the ultimate nature of reality
Humans are just animals, but at the same time they have the potential to embody the infinite in physical form
If theres one thing i know, i know that that is possible
|
deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: The Chronic]
#10116028 - 04/06/09 10:04 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Humans are just animals, but at the same time they have the potential to embody the infinite in physical form
Would you mind elaborating? What does this mean, and how may one go about doing so?
--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,525
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: The Chronic]
#10116048 - 04/06/09 10:06 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I
Yes there is strong evidence that we are just another primate. Please present your opposing evidence.
There is no evidence that anyone ever could or ever would transcend their animal nature. The point of this book is that all our actions and emotions are mirrored (to some degree) in our closest primate relatives.
The Buddha's revelation was practical psychology and nothing mystical. From Epictetus onward through Buddha to Ellis.
And while you don't know if any other ape tries to become enlightened since IMO no one does become enlightened it's just a neurotic fantasy anyway.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
Cognitive_Shift
@shroomery.org
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 22,230
Loc: OhighO 
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Icelander]
#10116145 - 04/06/09 10:19 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I agree we are animals. But show me another animal capable of philosophical dialog about the nature of reality...
We are animals with a neo-cortex and brain that has a large portion devoted to language.
--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
|
OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,358
Loc: Luxor
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#10116234 - 04/06/09 10:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Babbling incessantly, and ofttimes incoherently, is surely a sign of an advanced intellect. Monkey mouth noises are predominently useful more for social bonding rather than any real communication.
--------------------
This is your drain on brugs.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,525
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#10116236 - 04/06/09 10:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
But show me another animal capable of philosophical dialog about the nature of reality...
So? Show me a person who can detect the magnetic fields of the earth while flying under their own power at night over the Atlantic ocean.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
Cognitive_Shift
@shroomery.org
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 22,230
Loc: OhighO
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Icelander]
#10116281 - 04/06/09 10:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
We cannot fly under our own power, nor does it show intelligence, niether does detecting magnetic fields.
--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
|
OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,358
Loc: Luxor
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Icelander]
#10116295 - 04/06/09 10:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
--------------------
This is your drain on brugs.
|
The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,027
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: deCypher]
#10116317 - 04/06/09 10:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Humans are just animals, but at the same time they have the potential to embody the infinite in physical form
Would you mind elaborating? What does this mean, and how may one go about doing so?
Humans have the inbuilt search for ultimate truth, we look at the stars & wonder what its all about, we wish to come to complete & ultimate understanding about life. Some don't acknowledge this, but all of us have it inbuilt to find something more, to be completely fulfilled & happy. Everybody wants to be happy.
Im not saying apes don't have this, im sure to some extent all animals have this, im simply saying that humans are actually capable, while in this body to realize that ultimate truth.
The 'something more' that all beings seek, humans are able to find it
If the desire for truth is strong enough then you will find yourself drawn to the infinite in some way, some being who is Awake will be drawn into your presence & show you the Tao, if i say 'you do it like this' it would be ignoring the vast amount of paths there are to 'it'
It came about in this life by yearning so much for it that it was the only thing i wanted, i had to understand the truth of why we all suffer so much, seeing suffering in everything was too much to take so i simply had to find the truth
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,525
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: I believe we are nothing more than animals and not special. [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#10116319 - 04/06/09 10:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said:
We cannot fly under our own power, nor does it show intelligence, niether does detecting magnetic fields.
What I'm saying and you're missing is that language and our type of awareness are just physical adaptions to environment and for survival just as all creatures have.
What's so great about the way we think? Would you say most of humanity is emotionally and mentally sound and not neurotic?
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit 
Reply 
Anonymous
