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 Acaterpillar
A little mad...
 
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 Are our thoughts constructed by language? 
#9555010 - 01/05/09 10:34 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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So I was wondering, do we think our thoughts are thunk in the language we speak, or just in images emotions and abstract idea?
Okay so lets hypothetically say telepathy is real, I'm not saying it isn't real but it hasn't been "proven" yet. If two people attempted to preform telepathy, and the both spoke different languages, would they make sense to each other?
But I would imagine that telepathy would consist more of ideas and images rather than hearing some random guys voice in your head.
Yeah I'm just rambling here, kinda fucked up. 
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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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 Penguarky Tunguin
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Acaterpillar]
#9555017 - 01/05/09 10:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Look up the "Sapir-Whorf hypothesis".
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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
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deranger
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Acaterpillar]
#9555027 - 01/05/09 10:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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the only telepathic experience i've had was a collective obe with my bro
it was more about feeling than thought and language...
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stimpson
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Acaterpillar]
#9555036 - 01/05/09 10:41 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes, images, smells, ideas... the whole array of experiences.
some ppl are so adept at communicating psychically that they can cause you to conjure images, voices, thoughts about someone u kno but they have never met. like sending variables.
my old room mate figured out how to wake up my consciousness while i was sleeping, and i'd be awake but unable to move, feeling like i was falling really fast and like my heart was stopping n shit. either that or i had a very isolated period of night terrors.
but, i'm also insane so iono if u want to listen to me.
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ok.
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...
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So I read that Hypothesis. Super interesting stuff.
You guys should read it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir%E2%80%93Whorf_hypothesis
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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Kukaracha
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Acaterpillar]
#9558491 - 01/06/09 03:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Check out the works of Ferdinand of Saussure, father of modern linguistic.
He stated pretty clearly that language is not about naming reality, but about analyzing reality.
A good example is colours. Colors go from red to violet, without clear distinction. But you say that there is blue, green, red, and so on, while other societies divide the colour spectrum quite differently (as for example the Britain Celts who had a word, "glas" that stands for green and blue colours).
So, language is created by experience and necessity (if you live in the desert, no need to have many words to name vegetals); thoughts come from... hell, I don't know, I admit I really have no clue.
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blewmeanie
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Kukaracha]
#9558521 - 01/06/09 03:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Language is just a wall between you and me, and fuck is my chisel"
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Penguarky Tunguin
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Kukaracha]
#9558676 - 01/06/09 03:34 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kukaracha said:
Check out the works of Ferdinand of Saussure, father of modern linguistic.
He stated pretty clearly that language is not about naming reality, but about analyzing reality.
A good example is colours. Colors go from red to violet, without clear distinction. But you say that there is blue, green, red, and so on, while other societies divide the colour spectrum quite differently (as for example the Britain Celts who had a word, "glas" that stands for green and blue colours).
So, language is created by experience and necessity (if you live in the desert, no need to have many words to name vegetals); thoughts come from... hell, I don't know, I admit I really have no clue.
No, you're on the right track. Sapir and Whorf were students of de Saussure.
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Newbie
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Acaterpillar]
#9558741 - 01/06/09 03:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's an awesome question. I have a coworker that's lived in Germany until he was 18 and learned English in 4 years. He still speaks with an accent, but he's as fluent as you and I. I asked him if he processed thoughts in German or English and he said English.
It blew my mind that someone that lived the majority of their life in one country thought in a language they just learned 4 years prior. Really cool stuff. 
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Omegachrist
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there are many languages, which ever one you as a person are more native with will usually be the language of your thoughts. But then, thoughts can be transposed into light, an entirely different and complex form of language.
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"I dabble in all forms of art that show beauty in nature that in turn causes me to live in balance with mother nature, and to not tolerate anyone who opposes Gaia."
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Penguarky Tunguin
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Omegachrist]
#9558815 - 01/06/09 03:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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right, prove that
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Apollyphelion
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Acaterpillar]
#9558881 - 01/06/09 04:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are no words to convey the minutae
of subtle facial expressions that I input
as pattern recognition.
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"I'm looking at you looking at it"
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mantis
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Acaterpillar]
#9558975 - 01/06/09 04:20 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you define a thought as brain activity, then thought precedes language. Language is so crucial for humans. It's hard-- if not impossible-- to imagine something completely independent of language.
It seems like a chicken or the egg type thing.
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BoneMan
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Acaterpillar]
#9559014 - 01/06/09 04:25 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rabidbaboon said:
do we think our thoughts are thunk in the language we speak, or just in images emotions and abstract idea?
Its both. You have a mind don't you? If you pay attention to it for a few minutes you'll see that its both. Duh.
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Apollyphelion
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: BoneMan]
#9559071 - 01/06/09 04:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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With everything that's been said
I've seen some DAMN good Mimes.
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"I'm looking at you looking at it"
SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion
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Inside a Man
Inside a Horse
Meow!"
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Newbie
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: BoneMan]
#9559072 - 01/06/09 04:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Let's stop being to technical already.
You know what he means. Let's say.... You're trying to decide what beer to buy in your head. This is what it would sound like: "Damn the german import is only $10 a 12 pack, that a deal!"
If you were german: "Daing hezer shplekt blitzen shmorfEIZEN vitzershafffer!!!!!" (or something similar)
You don't reason something like that in binary or some "basic" type of language, you think in the language you dominantly speak.
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Acaterpillar
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Newbie]
#9559457 - 01/06/09 05:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I actually think though that I don't necessarily think in language unless I'm regarding something related with linguistics. Like if I'm thinking of how to phrase a sentence or what word to say, but when I'm thinking freely my thoughts don't seem to have "sounds" if you know what I mean, it's more images....uhhh I guess kinda like the hypnogogic state almost, except more subtle and it's going on 24/7
Get what I'm trying to say? 
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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: Acaterpillar]
#9559475 - 01/06/09 05:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Language is already a form of telepathy.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Penguarky Tunguin
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: deCypher]
#9559533 - 01/06/09 05:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Digest this, peeps:
http://deoxy.org/t_langvr.htm
and from a different article:
Quote:
You see, the ordinary way in which human beings communicate is one person makes small mouth noises, the small mouth noises move across through the air as acoustical pressure waves, they then enter the mind brain system of another person and that person consults a culturally validated dictionary to see if their definitions overlap with the definitions of the person who created the sounds in the first place. Now, if there's sufficient overlapping, then we say that communication is taking place, that understanding is occurring, but it's always a very provisional and shaky kind of understanding and as concepts become more complex, dictionaries become more incomplete and more divergent, and eventually two people of the same culture, they're discussing a highly technical question, may have no understanding of each other at all. Well, this is very different from the situation that arises if we could literally see what the other person means. It's not without implication for this argument that when we talk about perfecting communication, we unconsciously reach for visual metaphors, so someone will say "I see what you mean", or "She painted a picture", or "his prose was luminous". This means that we instinctively and unconsciously believe that meaning is something most clearly apprehended when seen
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...
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Re: Are our thoughts constructed by language? [Re: deCypher]
#9559545 - 01/06/09 05:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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dawg fo real u noz wut i be sayin tho
lik wen i say telepethy i mean talkin 2 sum1 wit yo thots
--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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