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 axl
Stranger
Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 94
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 atheists really do believe in God 
#9373339 - 12/05/08 02:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I just think that by using the word "God" in a sentence means that you acknowledge its existence.
I've been thinking about this for a while, but haven't really figured out how to formulate it. Just giving it a shot here, so I'll probably make a few mistakes.
You should also know that Catholicism has probably greatly influenced my opinions.
We are each masters of our own universe.
When you desire or contemplate something you are bringing about its existence, whether it ever manifests itself physically or not.
The unknown
We are still a really stupid species. They say we only use 10% of our brains. The fact that we still use violence to try to get what we want. We might as well be living in the zoo and still are pretty far to the left on the linear scale of evolution.
I think that there are big secrets out there that the rest of our brains might reveal. My biggest problem with our knowledge is that we really don't know where we came from. Obviously, God is the answer. God, however, is inherently the unknown. Even if you want to say we came from a "big bang," or wherever, where did we start out initially and how did that start. Our brains can't even comprehend the possibility of something with no beginning. Just like we can understand some things that mushrooms can't (maybe), there have to be just as many things out there that we don't understand. The answer is God. That is the answer for everything we don't know. If you don't think that there is some force among us that you don't quite comprehend, then you need to reflect on it a little more.
Some thoughts on God
God is the interaction between us all. The concept of the Holy Trinity is taught in the Christian church. Jesus is God, Jesus is the Son of God, and Jesus is man. In that religion, we are all God. It would be impossible to say that Jesus wasn't God just like it would be impossible to say that you are not God. This makes us responsible individually for the actions of us all. If God is unforgiving, it is because we as a people are like that and have let it happen. We pray because if we want something bad enough, we have the power to make it happen - whether it be in this lifetime or one hundred lifetimes from now.
Some thoughts on heaven
Back in the day, heaven was in the clouds. Now we realize the clouds are not that big. Could you imagine if there was a little spot somewhere in the clouds of our Earth where heaven was hiding?
Even in space. Do we travel somewhere light years away when we die? Have astronomers just failed so far to find it?
I haven't seen anything in religious beliefs that says heaven can't be here on Earth. People struggle with the thought of dying and not going anywhere. Where you go is in the minds of everyone that your actions have had an effect on in this world. That coincides with the theory of Chaos since even the slightest movement that you made may have triggered some sort of effect on everyone and all of our future.
If you live right, then you are making steps toward all of us reaching the heavenly state, and vice versa for hell.
This can work on the small scale too. Living by historically defined principles will make you a happy person.
Evolution
Some people tell me they think everything in the bible happened word for word just like it is written. I can buy that. I have read the bible and it is not that fascinating considering everything we know now. I mean, much of it was probably groundbreaking at the time. Even if people want to take the bible literally though, I think you have to take it as a parable or analogy or something. Parables are used all throughout the bible to get God's message across. Why do people fight the idea that the bible itself is a parable sent by God - God being the natural evolution of our species as we interact together.
Ok there goes my attention span for now. I have to get back to studying the US Constitution- a document based on the Holy Trinity itself.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
#9373430 - 12/05/08 02:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
axl said:
I just think that by using the word "God" in a sentence means that you acknowledge its existence.
When I talk about unicorns, does that also imply they exist?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: deCypher]
#9373442 - 12/05/08 02:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Oooh, you just made one appear in my office! Do it again, do it again!
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 rchtyp
Ethnoring Administrator
Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 363
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: deCypher]
#9373540 - 12/05/08 02:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
axl said:
I just think that by using the word "God" in a sentence means that you acknowledge its existence.
When I talk about unicorns, does that also imply they exist?
However, the biblical unicorn was a real animal, not an imaginary creature.
The bible says it, that means it's true. you're just closed minded and won't accept the word of god your LORD AND CREATOR!
Just kidding.
@OP: Just so you know, most define atheism as the nonbelief in a god, that should be argument enough. You obviously have doubts about the guy in the sky because you mentioned atheism in the title.
Quote:
Oooh, you just made one appear in my office! Do it again, do it again!
Unicorn. Unicorn, unicorn, unicorn, unicorn. Oh shit, sorry, good luck cleaning up.
- rch
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Creator of The Ethnoring
Edited by rchtyp (12/05/08 02:53 PM)
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: rchtyp]
#9373605 - 12/05/08 03:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Woo hoo! Don't worry about the clean up...I'm going to be rich! 
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axl
Stranger
Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 94
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: rchtyp]
#9373616 - 12/05/08 03:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Don't confuse something's existence with it's physical materialization.
I don't think that ghosts roam around in physical form, but I can not deny their existence and the impact they have on our society. Or the fact that someone's life can haunt you after they die.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,521
Loc: underbelly
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
#9373715 - 12/05/08 03:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Great post dude. Welcome to the Mystery forum.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
#9373723 - 12/05/08 03:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Are you talking about the physical existence of ghosts, the existence of ghosts as mental phenomena, or the existence of ghosts as a concept?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,521
Loc: underbelly
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: deCypher]
#9373731 - 12/05/08 03:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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There really is a ghost named Casper. I saw it in a magazine.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,787
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: deCypher]
#9373733 - 12/05/08 03:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
the existence of ghosts as mental phenomena, or the existence of ghosts as a concept?
What is the difference between those?
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: DieCommie]
#9373747 - 12/05/08 03:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, there's the idea or concept of ghosts, which certainly exists in fiction, movies, or even in the language we speak. The mental phenomena of a ghost would be similar to hallucinating a ghost: the experience is real, but has no physical basis.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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rchtyp
Ethnoring Administrator
Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 363
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
#9373764 - 12/05/08 03:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
axl said:
Don't confuse something's existence with it's physical materialization.
I don't think that ghosts roam around in physical form, but I can not deny their existence and the impact they have on our society. Or the fact that someone's life can haunt you after they die.
Now you're just getting silly, of course unicorns physically AND spiritually exist.
Gods exist in a psychical state as well, just go to any state where "Buddhism" is in right now. Mississippi, West Virginia, Alabama, Louisiana, South Carolina, and Tennessee are just a few examples.
They do have a very large impact on society, especially when they jump in a crowd not on solid ground.
Of course people are "haunted" with a loved one dies, there's a term for it, it's called bereavement.
- rch
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Creator of The Ethnoring
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,787
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: deCypher]
#9373767 - 12/05/08 03:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I thought you believe all experiences were 'valid' meaning physical basis is irrelevant to experiences?
Anyway, thx for the clarification.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: DieCommie]
#9373777 - 12/05/08 03:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I do, but most people differentiate between them so I was asking him to clarify.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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axl
Stranger
Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 94
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: deCypher]
#9373924 - 12/05/08 03:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok...it is a circular argument, but God is a mental concept that can't be denied, and I think that atheists especially recognize the power that we have in our minds.
Edited by axl (12/05/08 03:43 PM)
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,787
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: axl]
#9373950 - 12/05/08 03:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yea, so what? Thats not what atheists are denying. They are denying the existence of god - not the mental concept of god, which are completely different things (unless youre decypher).
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: DieCommie]
#9374019 - 12/05/08 03:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey, I didn't say they were the same thing. 
Besides, some people on here claim that atheism is really nontheism, or the lack of a belief in a God. I think they're full of hooey, but...
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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rchtyp
Ethnoring Administrator
Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 363
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: deCypher]
#9374122 - 12/05/08 04:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Hey, I didn't say they were the same thing.
Besides, some people on here claim that atheism is really nontheism, or the lack of a belief in a God. I think they're full of hooey, but...
What is atheism to you then?
the doctrine or belief that there is no God
Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism. When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities, alternatively called nontheism. ...
Absence of belief in the existence of God or gods
A belief that there are no gods. Greek "a-theos": without-god.
The list goes on and on.
Personally, atheism to me is simply a broad definition for the belief that there is no god. If you're non-religious, but lean more than 50/50 towards an all mighty supernatural power, you're an agnostic.
- rch
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Creator of The Ethnoring
Edited by rchtyp (12/05/08 04:06 PM)
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: rchtyp]
#9374128 - 12/05/08 04:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I agree with you, but there have been some fairly heated debates here in P&S in the past.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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axl
Stranger
Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 94
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Re: atheists really do believe in God [Re: DieCommie]
#9374259 - 12/05/08 04:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok. I suppose there may be a certain combination of definitions that an atheist can rely on when saying "I practice a disbelief in the existence of a deity."
I guess I just don't believe in Atheism.
I'm going to go with the combination of definitions that means Atheists really do believe in God.
existence-
1 aobsolete : reality as opposed to appearance b: reality as presented in experience c (1): the totality of existent things (2): a particular being <all the fair existences of heaven — John Keats> d: sentient or living being : life2 a: the state or fact of having being especially independently of human consciousness and as contrasted with nonexistence <the existence of other worlds> b: the manner of being that is common to every mode of being c: being with respect to a limiting condition or under a particular aspect3: actual or present occurrence <existence of a state of war>
believe-
intransitive verb1 a: to have a firm religious faith b: to accept as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts>2: to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something <believe in exercise>3: to hold an opinion : think <I believe so>transitive verb1 a: to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took> b: to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears>2: to hold as an opinion : suppose <I believe it will rain soon>
— be·liev·er noun
— not believe
: to be astounded at <I couldn't believe my luck>
athe·ism
1archaic : ungodliness , wickedness2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity
de·i·ty
1 a: the rank or essential nature of a god : divinity bcapitalized : god 1 , supreme being2: a god or goddess <the deities of ancient Greece>3: one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful
dis·be·lief
: the act of disbelieving : mental rejection of something as untrue
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