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 meatman
hot beef injector
Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 371
Loc: Underwater Lake
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 Re: First Extraction [Re: E. Goff]
#9367458 - 12/04/08 06:10 PM (1 month, 4 days ago) |
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no the 'black stuff' is what you are extracting from. the naphtha has the good stuff in it. after evaporating, dmt is left for you to scrape up.
there are 2 total dishes the way I am going about it.
I am not sure why evaporating would cause a lack of precip. all I did was evaporate some naphtha, and so much was used that it seemed like I evaporated none at all. Ive already moved on from the jar and sadly anything I had is gone.
Entropy, do you have any thoughts on the ratios used? and that hat is a very nice touch to your avatar 
thanks again.
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Everything I post is a complete fabrication made for your entertainment.
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,919
Loc: PNW
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Re: First Extraction [Re: meatman]
#9367854 - 12/04/08 07:02 PM (1 month, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
meatman said:
I am not sure why evaporating would cause a lack of precip.
No, sorry, I wasn't clear. It's the fact that you combined all of your pulls. The later ones are much less concentrated, so they're not as apt to freeze-precip. If you'd just forzen your first pull by itself, it's more likely crystals would have fallen out.
Quote:
Entropy, do you have any thoughts on the ratios used?
1:15:1 bark(g):water(mL):lye(g) is good. For naphtha, I'd typically use maybe 0.3 mL hot naphtha per gram of bark (that's just a guess, never measured anything the way I've extracted), to make sure that the DMT is concentrated enough to freeze-precip (it takes more pulls this way, but you can re-use the naphtha, and I'm a patient person)
Quote:
and that hat is a very nice touch to your avatar
thanks again.
Thanks, no problem
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
|
 Nature Boy
Stranger than most
Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 721
Loc: North East USA
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
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Re: First Extraction [Re: meatman]
#9367996 - 12/04/08 07:26 PM (1 month, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
meatman said:
then each pull calls for 2000ml naphtha.
HUH??????????? 2 liters of naptha? You're kidding me, right??? No wonder you can't precipitate out any spice. It's FAR TOO dilute!!!
I sure hope that is a typo.
N.B.
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All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,919
Loc: PNW
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Woah, I didn't catch that. Yeah, that'd explain why it's not precipping, and why it takes so long to evaporate if it's not a typo.
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
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meatman
hot beef injector
Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 371
Loc: Underwater Lake
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no, not a typo. not sure what would be a better amount. half that? a quarter of that?
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Everything I post is a complete fabrication made for your entertainment.
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,919
Loc: PNW
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Re: First Extraction [Re: meatman]
#9370070 - 12/05/08 12:58 AM (1 month, 4 days ago) |
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1/100th of that. A 1:1 ratio of bark(g):naphtha(mL) is the most that you want to use.
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
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meatman
hot beef injector
Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 371
Loc: Underwater Lake
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if i use much less naphtha won't it be hard to pour off? should i add more water?
i feel like a kindergartner asking the teacher how to pee. sorry about the dumb questions.
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Everything I post is a complete fabrication made for your entertainment.
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,919
Loc: PNW
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Re: First Extraction [Re: meatman]
#9370140 - 12/05/08 01:08 AM (1 month, 4 days ago) |
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Adding more water won't do anything. If you've got a 1 gram bark:15 mL water ratio, you're fine on that count.
Whether using less naphtha makes it harder to seperate the layers depends entirely on how you're trying to seperate them. It shouldn't be a problem seperating them by decanting twice in succession.
--------------------
Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
|
Nature Boy
Stranger than most
Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 721
Loc: North East USA
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
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Re: First Extraction [Re: meatman]
#9370608 - 12/05/08 05:26 AM (1 month, 4 days ago) |
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Meatman:
OK...we've definitely identified the problem...however this methodologic error highlights a basic misunderstanding of what you need to have happen here.
The whole idea behind freeze precipitation (by far the fastest, easiest, and non-equipment intensive way to separate spice from solution) critically depends on attaining saturation of the solution with spice. If you use so much naptha, the concentration will never ever approach saturation (without mondo evaporation first - a complete waste of resources, money and a huge time penalty.)
Think sugar solution. If you dissolve as much sugar as you possibly can into as little HOT water as possible, you have a saturated (some would say "super-saturated") solution. Getting the sugar to precipitate out is then EASY by simply cooling it.
Same thing with spice. First it moves (willingly - won't go into that) by diffusion out of the basic solution into the naptha, reaches a high concentration, and then you crash it out of solution by lowering the temperature by putting it in the freezer. The condition precedent to precipitation of spice is high concentration of DMT in naptha solution. With 2 L naptha, you are nowhere near that necessary level of concentration.
Hope that helps.
N.B.
--------------------
All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.
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E. Goff
Awaken the Dreamers
Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 138
Loc: DFW Texas
Last seen: 13 hours, 8 minutes
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Quote:
Nature Boy said:
Meatman:
OK...we've definitely identified the problem...however this methodologic error highlights a basic misunderstanding of what you need to have happen here.
The whole idea behind freeze precipitation (by far the fastest, easiest, and non-equipment intensive way to separate spice from solution) critically depends on attaining saturation of the solution with spice. If you use so much naptha, the concentration will never ever approach saturation (without mondo evaporation first - a complete waste of resources, money and a huge time penalty.)
Think sugar solution. If you dissolve as much sugar as you possibly can into as little HOT water as possible, you have a saturated (some would say "super-saturated") solution. Getting the sugar to precipitate out is then EASY by simply cooling it.
Same thing with spice. First it moves (willingly - won't go into that) by diffusion out of the basic solution into the naptha, reaches a high concentration, and then you crash it out of solution by lowering the temperature by putting it in the freezer. The condition precedent to precipitation of spice is high concentration of DMT in naptha solution. With 2 L naptha, you are nowhere near that necessary level of concentration.
Hope that helps.
N.B.
Can I get a link to the TEK we're discussing here? I'm fucking taking notes right now 
--------------------
Pleasure, with pain for leaven.
Summer, with flowers that fell.
Rememberance fallen from heaven
and madness risen from hell.
Strength, without hands to smite.
Love that endures for a breath.
Night the shadow of Light,
and Life the shadow of Death.
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,919
Loc: PNW
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Re: First Extraction [Re: E. Goff]
#9373245 - 12/05/08 03:13 PM (1 month, 3 days ago) |
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I'm not sure which he's following, it could be Noman's or lazyman's. Noman's tek is definitely the better of the two (just ignor the ammonia wash part).
Also, Noman recently posted a thread discussing revisions to the tek.
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
|
E. Goff
Awaken the Dreamers
Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 138
Loc: DFW Texas
Last seen: 13 hours, 8 minutes
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Quote:
Entropymancer said:
I'm not sure which he's following, it could be Noman's or lazyman's. Noman's tek is definitely the better of the two (just ignor the ammonia wash part).
Also, Noman recently posted a thread discussing revisions to the tek.
Woot!
Since you seem to know a shitload about DMT and the extraction process, does it matter if buy powdered MHRB instead of a whole piece and doing it myself?
--------------------
Pleasure, with pain for leaven.
Summer, with flowers that fell.
Rememberance fallen from heaven
and madness risen from hell.
Strength, without hands to smite.
Love that endures for a breath.
Night the shadow of Light,
and Life the shadow of Death.
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,919
Loc: PNW
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Re: First Extraction [Re: E. Goff]
#9373407 - 12/05/08 03:34 PM (1 month, 3 days ago) |
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You won't be able to powder it as finely as they can, but that's not a problem. If you use pre-powdered bark with Noman's tek, you'll need to use more water (like 25 mL per gram of bark instead of 15)
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
|
E. Goff
Awaken the Dreamers
Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 138
Loc: DFW Texas
Last seen: 13 hours, 8 minutes
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Quote:
Entropymancer said:
You won't be able to powder it as finely as they can, but that's not a problem. If you use pre-powdered bark with Noman's tek, you'll need to use more water (like 25 mL per gram of bark instead of 15)
Awesome. I'm thinking that a DMT extraction will be my Christmas present to myself 
--------------------
Pleasure, with pain for leaven.
Summer, with flowers that fell.
Rememberance fallen from heaven
and madness risen from hell.
Strength, without hands to smite.
Love that endures for a breath.
Night the shadow of Light,
and Life the shadow of Death.
|
Nature Boy
Stranger than most
Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 721
Loc: North East USA
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
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Quote:
Entropymancer said:
If you use pre-powdered bark with Noman's tek, you'll need to use more water (like 25 mL per gram of bark instead of 15)
Entropymancer:
You are the Duke of DMT!
While I accept that the above advice is good information, can you explain to me why 40% more water (i.e. 25-15/25 X 100 = 40%) would be required for powdered MHRB?
Thanks!
N.B.
--------------------
All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,919
Loc: PNW
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I'm not 100% sure of the reason, it's just something that's been empirically determined.
My best guess would be that the higher surface area of the finely powdered bark allows it to hold more water, so more needs to be added to make the solution thin enough to avoid emulsion.
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
|
Nature Boy
Stranger than most
Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 721
Loc: North East USA
Last seen: 1 hour, 16 minutes
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Ok. Sounds reasonable. Powder does represent a lot more surface area.
N.B.
--------------------
All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.
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meatman
hot beef injector
Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 371
Loc: Underwater Lake
|
|
Quote:
Nature Boy said:
Meatman:
OK...we've definitely identified the problem...however this methodologic error highlights a basic misunderstanding of what you need to have happen here.
The whole idea behind freeze precipitation (by far the fastest, easiest, and non-equipment intensive way to separate spice from solution) critically depends on attaining saturation of the solution with spice. If you use so much naptha, the concentration will never ever approach saturation (without mondo evaporation first - a complete waste of resources, money and a huge time penalty.)
Think sugar solution. If you dissolve as much sugar as you possibly can into as little HOT water as possible, you have a saturated (some would say "super-saturated") solution. Getting the sugar to precipitate out is then EASY by simply cooling it.
Same thing with spice. First it moves (willingly - won't go into that) by diffusion out of the basic solution into the naptha, reaches a high concentration, and then you crash it out of solution by lowering the temperature by putting it in the freezer. The condition precedent to precipitation of spice is high concentration of DMT in naptha solution. With 2 L naptha, you are nowhere near that necessary level of concentration.
Hope that helps.
N.B.
Definitely, got it. I did not realize that it needed to be so concentrated. I'm going to give it another go but this time will be doing 100g mhrb. Ordering it pre-powdered. So that means.. 100g mhrb/2500ml water/ 100g lye for initial mixture.
Ok so I guess the tricky part for me is how much naphtha I am supposed to be adding. I know I want it to be a concentrated mixture of crystal/naphtha.
Is that the correct ratio for the initial mixture? Based on what entropy said, I would use .3ml/gram of mhrb so that comes to ~30 ml of naptha per pull? What if I don't warm the naphtha, would I still use that amount? What a big difference! I am going from using 400ml naphtha per pull to 30. (maybe, depending on what advice is given).
I'm trying to get everything straight right now so when the next package arrives I can get to work.
The tek I am using is HERE. Though, based on all the advice I have recieved here, I am pretty much not even using it anymore.
and one final note: remember my first extraction was of only 30g mhrb, so my #'s dont match that tek.
ok. sorry for the long post.
--------------------
Everything I post is a complete fabrication made for your entertainment.
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,919
Loc: PNW
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Re: First Extraction [Re: meatman]
#9375557 - 12/05/08 08:44 PM (1 month, 3 days ago) |
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Yep, 100/2500/100 is a good ratio. Noman recommends a 1 mL naphtha to 1 gram bark ratio, which would come to 100 mL per pull. That's probably going to get you a concentrated enough solution (at least from the first couple pulls) if the pulls are done heated.
If you're patient, I'd go for 30-50 mL per pull (heated), so that you're virtually guarenteed to get a solution concentrated enough to freeze-precip for all but you last pull. (After each freeze-precip, re-use the naphtha for the next pull) This will take more pulls, but it avoids evaporating naphtha (which is a big plus in my book, those fumes are nasty)
--------------------
Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
|
meatman
hot beef injector
Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 371
Loc: Underwater Lake
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Re: First Extraction [Re: Jorkest]
#9440625 - 12/15/08 10:39 PM (24 days, 7 hours ago) |
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i'm ready. but i have one question before starting. when i put everything in my milk jug, can i just cap it and swirl it around? what about shaking it? if I can't swirl it, how would you mix it?
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Everything I post is a complete fabrication made for your entertainment.
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