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LayYouIn
Taurus


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
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Palladium
#9248884 - 11/15/08 02:09 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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what is your opinion on Palladium?
from what i've shortly gathered...
Palladium was a little below $50 in the 60's and has gone up and down since then mainly remaining around 100-150 until the late 90's when it jumped to $250 and even near $400. it continued to rise and in 2001 it broke $1000. during 2001 it dropped back down to the $300-$400 range. during 2002 it dropped to around $250. in 2003 and 2004 it stayed in the $200 range. at the end of 2005 it jumped up to near $300. in 2006 it jumped up to $400 and then went back down the the low $300 range and stayed there. in 2007 it stayed in the $300 range. in 2008 it went up to $600 and back down to $400 and since then has gone down to $250, which is were it's at now.


Palladium jumped to the $250 range in the late 90's. since then it's broke $1000. right it's at $250.
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SFsorrow
Is Born


Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 259
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Re: Palladium [Re: LayYouIn]
#9257575 - 11/17/08 12:36 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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All of the PM's have and still are getting clobbered in this market. I am not one to gamble on possible inflation shortly down the road so I'm not buying any until the signs are right.
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Dobie
Dopeless Hopefiend


Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 50,628
Loc: ON DA BLOCK
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
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Re: Palladium [Re: SFsorrow]
#9257967 - 11/17/08 02:21 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sell it to the scrap metal place for BUCKS
-------------------- This place is gayer than when the balls touch
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J3illy
Trainee

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Re: Palladium [Re: Dobie]
#9258088 - 11/17/08 02:56 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I remember reading something funny about Pd - when the price went up to $1000 like that, 1 of the automakers bought up TONS of it [cuz it's used in catalytic converters], thinking they were doing the right thing - but then the price plummeted and they took a huge loss.
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SheerTerror
ST



Registered: 11/28/03
Posts: 2,335
Last seen: 23 days, 2 hours
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Re: Palladium [Re: LayYouIn]
#9267658 - 11/18/08 07:53 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I saw on bloomblerg about a month ago they said that alot of watch, jewelery and car companies are planning on switching over to palladium.
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zorbman
Be Prepared


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,746
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Re: Palladium [Re: LayYouIn]
#9271792 - 11/19/08 01:14 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree with SFsorrow, I wouldn't buy until the economy begins showing some signs of recovery because there is still some likely downwards pressure on the price. From a technical standpoint there is some resistence at the $200 level and if the price falls further from there there is very strong support at $100- if the price should fall to there it will likely plateau there and begin building a base for a further leg up when the Fed re-inflates economy begins to recover.
-------------------- Why does changing the party in power never change policy? Could it be that the views of both parties are essentially the same? - Ron Paul
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LayYouIn
Taurus


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
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Re: Palladium [Re: zorbman]
#9274194 - 11/19/08 09:01 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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i think in your sig, the 7th word, "every", is suppose to be "ever"...;)
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zorbman
Be Prepared


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,746
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Re: Palladium [Re: LayYouIn]
#9274773 - 11/19/08 10:28 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, I noticed that too. I'll pass that on to Darryl..
-------------------- Why does changing the party in power never change policy? Could it be that the views of both parties are essentially the same? - Ron Paul
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LayYouIn
Taurus


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 4,402
Loc: Organ
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Re: Palladium [Re: zorbman]
#9280311 - 11/20/08 07:25 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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it's at like $180 right now...
do you think gold is a good long term buy at $750 right now, or do you personally think it'll keep going down?
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zorbman
Be Prepared


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,746
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Re: Palladium [Re: LayYouIn]
#9282068 - 11/21/08 12:04 AM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
do you think gold is a good long term buy at $750 right now, or do you personally think it'll keep going down?
I think under 750$ it is a good buy. It may drop some more but I don't believe in trying to pick bottoms or tops. You may see it drop to 600$ or even $500 where it has very strong technical support. It would build a base from there to charge dramatically higher by late next year in my estimation.
This is a wonderful buying opportunity for the precious metals investor. Of course, as always, you want to diversify your investments and not place all your eggs in one basket.
-------------------- Why does changing the party in power never change policy? Could it be that the views of both parties are essentially the same? - Ron Paul
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SFsorrow
Is Born


Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 259
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Re: Palladium [Re: zorbman]
#9301900 - 11/24/08 04:01 AM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Now what the heck happened to Rhodium? It fell over $9,000 in value per ounce since June!
How about this, in place of buying the metal itself, why not just buy mining stocks, or etf's of mining stocks. It's way easier to cash in on gains that way then dealing with a physical metal.
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hummermania00
Strange Son of aBitch



Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 327
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: Palladium [Re: SFsorrow]
#9333672 - 11/29/08 08:42 PM (4 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SFsorrow said: Now what the heck happened to Rhodium? It fell over $9,000 in value per ounce since June!
How about this, in place of buying the metal itself, why not just buy mining stocks, or etf's of mining stocks. It's way easier to cash in on gains that way then dealing with a physical metal.
Here's what the heck happened to rhodium: http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=45541&phrase=rhodium
Enjoy
-------------------- You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events.
When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,279
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
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That's an incredible story.
An excerpt of the exact "how"...
Quote:
In any case, regarding rhodium, what is said to have happened is:
* Retirement musical chairs. The manager in charge of procuring PGMs—until a couple of weeks ago—was the second or third man to hold the position in just the three years since the long term and very skilled in PGM trading and hedging holder of that assignment was ‘retired’ after an internal dispute with top management about what he considered counter-productive constraints on responsibility creating unfair liabilities for himself and his staff. * Sell & buy back. Shortly thereafter, it’s said, his first successor—who had no prior experience in the PGM markets, sold off the company’s physical rhodium inventory. This since he saw that it had a low cost-basis on the company’s books, and it was then selling at a substantial multiple of that basis. It was also the end of the calendar year, so that he was able to deliver a nice number to the company’s bottom line and be regarded as a hero for that alone. In his total ignorance of the market for rhodium, he assumed that since its price had at that time been flat for a while it would remain flat—and he could buy back just what he needed, around 5,000 ounces a month as he needed it. Since no good deed goes unpunished, it of course happened that rhodium began rising at that time and the feckless seller had to buy material on the market at an average of $2,000 per ounce more than he had sold it for. Thus cash flow for rhodium increased immediately in the next calendar year by $10 million a month and rose from there.
Now we come to our present situation and story. It’s now two years later and the successor to the man who sold the rhodium when he shouldn’t have it is said now decided not to repeat that mistake. So he came up with a new blunder. He decided to stockpile not six-months worth of rhodium as the formerly great corporation had been doing but 18 months worth, and he proceeded to do just that. This meant that the formerly great company wound up holding or controlling by the end of the spring 2008, some 10% of the global rhodium supply. On June 15, 2008 this inventory had a nominal value of nearly $1 billion dollars. The top financial managers of the great corporation announced that they had made a huge amount of money in futures trading even though the formerly great corporation had its worst overall quarter ever in early 2008. Perhaps the top managers even believed that since the rhodium (and platinum) inventory was now priced at all time highs for both metals they actually had ‘made money.’ The problem was that they needed liquidity, so it is said they instructed the hapless PGM buyer to correct his inventory to the previous standard of six months physical. He then actually went to the RSA to see if agreements could be cashed out, or unwound, or sold to another buyer with profits for both the producer and the formerly great company, or changed. The producers wouldn’t do anything but stick to the original terms.
So what would you think would be the worst thing one could do in this situation? You are right. It would be to try and sell a large amount of rhodium into a declining market. The hapless, unsophisticated, unskilled-in-PGM-trading manager, it is said, offered 30,000-60,000 ounces of his 90,000 ounce rhodium inventory to the market. So he not only corrected the slight global market deficit, but also sent the market into instant surplus. The market collapsed; and the manager was transferred to another country and another job. Rather than having a rhodium inventory marked to market at $1 billion the formerly great company now has a remaining inventory it is said worth at market a maximum of $240 million. We are waiting for the announcement of the nearly $700 million loss, but I don’t think we will see it anytime soon. Perhaps it really never happened.
By the way I heard that the same situation occurred with the formerly great company’s platinum inventory, but that inventory only lost a third of its value in the exact same time period for the same reasons.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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mushroomhunter10
Jack-Of-All-Trades



Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 3,357
Loc: Midwest
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Precious Metals are always good.
Silver is a great buy right now at $10 an ounce.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,700
Loc: The Hand
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http://unctad.org/infocomm/anglais/palladium/ecopolicies.htm
Just two countries are responsible for 90% of the palladium mined and refined - Russia and South Africa. This concentration means any disruption in production or even that fear can drive the price of palladium up sharply. Recently the price spiked to nearly $600 an ounce after South Africa claimed they were having major electrical shortages affecting the mining of Palladium (and also Platinum and Rhodium). Later it came out they lied about the situation (they would never allow a shortage of electricity to the mines where the money is) which caused the price of all three PGMs to plummet. Of course the bursting of the commodity bubble in general and a major economic slowdown made the prices of PGMs to go down even further than they would have even given the electric supply lie.
The MAJOR wild card with palladium is the stockpile in Russia. The size of this pile of palladium is a "closely guarded State secret" which makes determining a "reasonable" price for palladium even more problematic. But, given the collapse in the Russian economy based on oil tanking one would have to believe that Russia is dumping some of that stockpile.
It is interesting that in spite of the sharp drop in palladium's "spot price", the supply at least from coin dealers such as APMEX has also dropped sharply. Until recently and at much higher prices palladium coins and bullion were available in quantity. For a while recently, APMEX had NO palladium coins OR bullion for sale. ZERO. One would think that since prices are so reduced that "demand" is low and supply should be high. Basic economics, right? Usually. But, now is not a "usual" time in the world economic system.
The "explanation" for the shortage of palladium coins and bullion at least with a small investor who won't (or can't) buy 100 ounce Russian Palladium bars at a small spread at the NYMEX is that some people are hoarding palladium (and silver, and gold). Surely these hoarders must be just paranoid. Why would people think that PGMs are worth hoarding just because they are expensive to produce and 90% of the supply comes from just two countries (Russia and South Africa) with their stellar economic and political systems? Wouldn't it be better to own U.S. dollars backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government and given the "protection" of FDIC insurance? Isn't paper worth the same thing as a precious metal if it is such "special" paper?
-------------------- Don't submit to dogma.
Edited by LunarEclipse (11/30/08 11:09 AM)
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