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 theidiotnoob
skedooosh!
Registered: 09/23/08
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Loc: NY
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 trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? 
#9247799 - 11/15/08 08:41 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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My rye jars will colonize beautifully until about 75%. Then, like a greek tragedy, i will see that awful blue-green. I will piss and moan, remove the jar from incubator, and pray to the shroom gods to please have mercy. then the gods slap me down and the next day, I remove another green-blue jar. I have not had any contam in PF tek, why so much with rye? I am meticulous in my sterilization, I have a "clean room" worthy of friggin biohazard 3 contaminants, and yet i have been bitch slapped 4 my efforts. What causes trich to just appear after the myc has colonized 75%? I thought the addition of Peroxide would stop most contam. I know it is a fact of growing, but any advice on how to keep the beast at bay would be greatly welcomed. I REFUSE TO QUIT!! that, or I am a glutton for punishment!
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If I were a dog,
And Trich were a flower,
I would lift my leg,
And give them a shower 
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theidiotnoob
skedooosh!
Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 53
Loc: NY
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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 Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: theidiotnoob]
#9247812 - 11/15/08 08:51 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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I know i should've posted on the contam forum, but having a proxy problem on this server which hasn't been fixed yet. So I can only post on this forum. Sorry.
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If I were a dog,
And Trich were a flower,
I would lift my leg,
And give them a shower
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,237
Loc: Canada 
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: theidiotnoob]
#9247815 - 11/15/08 08:52 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Arnt we all gluttons for punishment?
Did you inoculate in a glovebox? and if so, did you remember to apply a strip of micro pore tape over the inoculation hole afterwards? maybe you could even try coffee filters or a dual tyvek/polyfill combo.
No idea how it got there but those are some ways to keep it out for next time.
One other thing if you did inoculate in a glovebox and took all the other precautionary measures then it might be a improper PC cycle. Did you wait to see a heavy stream of steam shooting out before you placed the weight on? Trich can be a tough mo fo to kill, I've PC'd grain jars with at at 15psi for 45 minutes and still had some survive.... 90min always kills it if/when it happens.
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theidiotnoob
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Loc: NY
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: HybridprX]
#9247822 - 11/15/08 08:57 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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I always sterilize at 15psi for 90 minutes. I use the Micropore tape. They were originally inoculated with questionable spore\water. I used the same spores to do 10 pftek jars and no contam on any. Could my water incubator be harboring these since there is stagnant water?
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If I were a dog,
And Trich were a flower,
I would lift my leg,
And give them a shower
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Mr.Al
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: theidiotnoob]
#9247824 - 11/15/08 08:58 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Perhaps the PH of your spawn is too acidic. That could happen if you used the coffee rye tek w/o enough hydrated lime to bring PH to a slightly alkaline level. Do you have a lot of burst grains in your jars. What does the bottom of your jars look like? At what temperature are your spawn jars being held at? How long ago were the jars inoculated?
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theidiotnoob
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Registered: 09/23/08
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: Mr.Al]
#9247834 - 11/15/08 09:05 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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I use 2.5 cups grain (cooked), 1\8 tsp of calcium carb, 1\8 tsp of hydrated lime per jar. Very few exploded grains. Oddly, bottom of jars look perfect. Jars are held at 76 in incubator, but I have tape thermometers on every jar and all are held at a constant 80 degrees. I inoculated them with agar bout 10 days ago. they go like a bat out of hell till 75% and one shake.....then the bull starts. I should post pics, but camera wont show it. There are only a few grains per jar that turn. It seems to be limited that way. Meaning it doesn't spread like wildfire like it should and take over the whole jar.
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If I were a dog,
And Trich were a flower,
I would lift my leg,
And give them a shower
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost
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Posts: 6,093
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: theidiotnoob]
#9247845 - 11/15/08 09:18 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Maybe you aren't using your pressure cooker properly, and the grains aren't getting sterilized.
Are you soaking for 24 hours first?? If not that could be it.
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,237
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: theidiotnoob]
#9247851 - 11/15/08 09:21 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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It could be that from the time you did the 10pf jars that is when the print in question contaminated would be the safest bet I think.
I know that every time I work with a print and re-use it that I will sometimes get a syringe with a very small amount of trich in it, I just work from home like yourself and have been doing this for awhile, glovebox and all, still have no idea at what time during the handling that it happens but it does...
As far as the TiT....Great concept when you have a cold environment where you're storing your spawn jars but TiT's use to screw me over to no extent, I found that since normal room temperature is about 68-72f and a small environment already submerged in water will generate heat on its own plus the fact the jars themselves give off heat, especially during the initial colonization....One would have to monitor the temperature of every jar to really see what they were sitting at.
You could try a fish tank bubbler to keep the water flowing in the bottom tub.
If you have any spore solution left try shooting up a test jar, then g2g from that to make up for the failed ones. Best advise I can think of at the moment 
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Help support the new Free spore ring Canada, send them your spare prints!!!
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Mr.Al
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: MHbound]
#9247858 - 11/15/08 09:28 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good question... I take it the OP starts timing out the 90 minutes once the regulator starts going apeshit??? Trich spreads pretty quick... Are you sure it's trich??? You did rinse the grains thoroughly (until the water runs clear) prior to a 24 hour soak??? How fast were your jars colonizing?? One week to ten days to full colonization (especially from good agar wedges) should be no prob.
MAYBE your agar became contaminated??? Were you using a flow hood or a glove box for transferring your agar to your spawn jars???
Read your post again, they colonized fast enough. I can only think you are not using a flow hood. If you don't have access to one presently agar work could contaminate very easily...
Edited by Mr.Al (11/15/08 09:32 AM)
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veda_sticks
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: Mr.Al]
#9247896 - 11/15/08 09:47 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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mould in a grain jar looks obvoiusly sick and disgusting. if its only on a few grains and isnt spreading, its most likely bruising from shaking the jar. Moulds are killed at bellow boiling point. if your getting mould, its most likely dirty inoculant or inoculation, poor filtering or wet filter.
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Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
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veda_sticks
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: Mr.Al]
#9247914 - 11/15/08 09:56 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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is nobody listening, if blue/green shows up after shaking. its probably bruising. trich will spread fast and looks god awfull uggly in a grain jair. its unmistakbly sick. your sterilisation methods are fine aswell as prep of grain otherwise you would have bacterial contamination. Also, theres no need to ph adjust your grain. since its growing in a sterile enviroment. mycelium actually likes slightly acidic substrates. keep ph buffering to casing layers thats are exposed to contaminants.
--------------------
PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
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MycoAu
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: veda_sticks]
#9247924 - 11/15/08 10:00 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Be sure to :
1. soak grains overnight (germination of endospores/ proper hydration) If this doesn't happen, it is very likely that you'll have to kill endospores with extended PC times (no gaurantees either).
2. PC at proper temperatures for proper amounts of time (ie - 1 to 2 hours @ 15 psi depending on load and packing in the PC). If you fail to do this properly, you will see random patches of mycelial growth that will turn green/blue with ~3-7 days of growth.
3. Grow out on agar first to isolate a clean strain. (Germination of spores, selection of favorable sectors) Your spores are probably dirty from the air in which the print was taken. If this is the case, you will likely see mold germinate, grow and turn blue/green in the same familar streaking pattern as with the germination of desired spores. Also, the last few mm's of the mycelium's edge will be white until the spores of the mold begin to mature- the lead edge of growth will always be "white" for a day or two before this happens.
Edited by MycoAu (11/15/08 10:02 AM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: MycoAu]
#9247989 - 11/15/08 10:39 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I will piss and moan, remove the jar from incubator, and pray to the shroom gods to please have mercy.
Shitcan the incubator and then you won't have to pray so much.
Jar filters can only do so much, and when you have a trich outbreak in a silly little sealed up and heated tub, you provide the ideal climate for trichoderma to spread from jar to jar. Even on an open shelf, I've noticed if one jar gets trich, the others nearby often do as well, even though all have good filters.
Colonize jars at normal room temperature on an open shelf for best results. If your 'room' is cold, run a space heater.
In addition, your spores or culture must be clean, and your procedures for grains must be impeccable. Pf tek is sort of like training wheels on a bicycle. You can get away with too much and bad habits can easily develop.
RR
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WAHZOOO
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: theidiotnoob]
#9248026 - 11/15/08 10:53 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
theidiotnoob said:
I always sterilize at 15psi for 90 minutes. I use the Micropore tape. They were originally inoculated with questionable spore\water. I used the same spores to do 10 pftek jars and no contam on any. Could my water incubator be harboring these since there is stagnant water?
"They were originally inoculated with questionable spore\water."
"water incubator"
"Micropore tape"
It is possible, your "spore water" picked up the contam during inoculation of pf jars via needle exposure.
Micropore tape is not bullet proof.
Contam can wick into jar through micropore tape.
If it gets wet, or is kept in very high rh.
Open water incubator will have high rh.
So, the contam issue could be any one or multiples of those things.
Suggest you start over with clean inoculate.
Suggest you double up on micropore tape & use DRY jar incubation.
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Brennus
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: WAHZOOO]
#9248161 - 11/15/08 11:37 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Everyone else already chimed in with good advice, but are you flame sterilizing your needle during inoculation? I have a simple $10 rubbermaid glove box, an $8 alcohol lamp, live in a house with wall-to-wall carpeting and half a dozen dogs and cats, and have almost no contamination problems with my projects.
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Vermonster420
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 Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: veda_sticks]
#9248194 - 11/15/08 11:45 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
veda_sticks said:
is nobody listening, if blue/green shows up after shaking. its probably bruising. trich will spread fast and looks god awfull uggly in a grain jair. its unmistakbly sick. your sterilisation methods are fine aswell as prep of grain otherwise you would have bacterial contamination. Also, theres no need to ph adjust your grain. since its growing in a sterile enviroment. mycelium actually likes slightly acidic substrates. keep ph buffering to casing layers thats are exposed to contaminants.
My thoughts exactly for what it's worth. Veda has never let me down or steered me wrong.
Besides the other mentions of icky water incubators and micropore tape obviously chinks in your armour, all trich I've seen wasn't anything I would desscribe as "blue-green"
if it doesn't look like Oscar the Grouch in the jar, I'd say bruising!
just my $.02
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To thine own self be true.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
Ass...it's the NEW pussy!
"Gungah-DeGungah"
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WAHZOOO
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: Brennus]
#9248224 - 11/15/08 11:51 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Flame sterilizing a needle will do no good if you have & are using a contaminated inoculate.
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WAHZOOO
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: Vermonster420]
#9248238 - 11/15/08 11:54 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would say it is not bruising.
Have done a ton of WBS & Rye spawn in jars & bags.
Never once had bruising of a grain spawn.
Nor, have ever seen it.
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theidiotnoob
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Registered: 09/23/08
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: WAHZOOO]
#9253831 - 11/16/08 09:54 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well guys, I separated the questionable jars and it seems to not be spreading. I just don't know. The jars have colonized with nice myc, but still a few of those blue-green ones. I tried to take pics, but camera won't pick them up. I think I will try to case a couple and see what happens. Is there any harm in growing on questionable substrate?? I don't really want to kill myself or any of my buds with contaminated mush's.
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If I were a dog,
And Trich were a flower,
I would lift my leg,
And give them a shower
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dead
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Re: trich is kicking my ass....wtf is the issue? [Re: theidiotnoob]
#9253842 - 11/16/08 10:01 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sounds like bruising. If it is bruising there's no harm in fruiting it.
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"The third eye. You spend years doing everything you can to open it and then the damn thing opens and your friends laugh at you when you tell them you can see their souls behind their eyes burning like rainbows."
Links:
 Nibin's Guide for Noobs
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