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 whattheheck
Chief Love Lover
Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
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 You all following this? 
#9161773 - 10/30/08 09:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Man, I keep digging and digging and it looks like the truth of the matter is that America is bankrupt and basically when other nations start getting away from all of their US dollars (which I guess Taiwan did on Friday and that's not a good sign) we're done for in a big way.
I know there's hope, I guess, and I don't want to be a "The Sky is falling" type of guy, but I just don't see any way around it. That said, with all you know from your various studies and travels, what do you think the black/white situation is?
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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
Edited by whattheheck (10/31/08 01:10 AM)
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,290
Loc: Americas
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Re: You all following this? [Re: whattheheck]
#9161811 - 10/30/08 09:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why would you think america is bankrupt? Our spending and revenue ratio, coupled with the continued promises to expand entitlements and make the tax code ever-harder to utilize and depend upon in making decisions, is ridiculous, but so what?
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover
Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
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Re: You all following this? [Re: johnm214]
#9161855 - 10/30/08 10:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is where not having the verbal skills to correctly state things screws me. In reading about the situation that we have going on with all of these derivatives, hedge funds and credit buy swap type deals, according to dozens of economists, basically we're going to be bankrupted when it all shakes out as we don't have the money to pay up.
The picture I was painted is it's like a guy goes to Vegas and takes out a bunch of money on his credit card and loses it. Combine that with personal debt, the housing crisis (have you looked into how bad this REALLY is?) the national debt, incredible inflation that MUST occur and the fact that other countries have no reason either fiscally or for reasons of diplomacy to befriend us, and Mr. I-bet-the-farm-and-came-up-craps is going to have a hard time paying what he owes.
I just want to hear some opinions and thoughts. I have children. And as much as I have problems with the way we do business across the board here, I;d rather things work out. I just don't se HOW they can. 
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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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 JonnyDeformed
ॐ
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1,505
Loc: Directlyundertheearthssun...
Last seen: 5 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: You all following this? [Re: whattheheck]
#9162498 - 10/30/08 11:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is no "I hope so" option..
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Australian Ethnobotany
Sound
it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
i see no criminals, i see before me political prisoners!
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.
Edited by JonnyDeformed (10/30/08 11:42 PM)
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover
Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
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Re: You all following this? [Re: johnm214]
#9162740 - 10/31/08 01:14 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not to mention that our automakers are losing billions and are needing government money to bail them out or they'd be going bankrupt. Most airlines are either already bankrupt or going there, and personal savings is lower then it's ever been, even in the depression while our debt to income ration has also never been so high to boot.
Other than that.....
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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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Vermonster420
I gotta have more cowbell !
Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 662
Loc: Standin' On the Moon
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Re: You all following this? [Re: whattheheck]
#9165017 - 10/31/08 02:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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America is by definition absolutely bankrupt and has been ever since the development of the federal reserve bank which issues currency to the USA at interest even though the Government actually prints it! To explain, the Fed Reserve bank is NOT a federal government entity, it is a business on it's own who loans currency to the government at interest! the more they allow in circulation, the less it's worth which means it takes more to make up the interest to pay it back! Talk about political reach-around back room deals! we're screwed and it will all collapse regardless of federal bailouts. Just wait.
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To thine own self be true.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
Ass...it's the NEW pussy!
"Gungah-DeGungah"
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 16,161
Loc: In a Tree
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vermonster, you could not have sounded more unintelligent in that post even if you tried really really hard.
Please, educate yourself (and not through YouTube videos).
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AroundtheSon
Mr. President
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 3,028
Loc: Midwest.
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Re: You all following this? [Re: whattheheck]
#9172157 - 11/02/08 11:07 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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money is fake, you just gotta believe.
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 16,161
Loc: In a Tree
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Money's only value is the one placed upon it by our belief that it contains value.
So belief is what actually makes it real (and thus, not fake)
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Vermonster420
I gotta have more cowbell !
Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 662
Loc: Standin' On the Moon
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: You all following this? [Re: meams]
#9173445 - 11/02/08 04:06 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's your opinion Meams and I suppose you're entitled to it. How else do you explain the several trillion dollars of debt the federal gov't is in? Debt with inability to pay back is the definition of bankrupt right? I think if you research our founding fathers and the ideals of the nation before it became what it is today, you also would be feeling as alienated as some of us Patriots who know what has happened. As for my education, you made an erroneous assumption. The point being made about money is the lack of a gold standard. Once the bills incirculation were no longer representative of the nation's wealth reserve, the value is perceived but not gauranteed.
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To thine own self be true.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
Ass...it's the NEW pussy!
"Gungah-DeGungah"
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jacksonian
Stranger Danger
Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 538
Loc: Where the red fern grows....
Last seen: 30 days, 8 hours
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these are pretty crazy times...just the idea of how far we have come in such a short amount of time...
it is feasible that this foundation could come to a halt or crash of some sort...buts its not like any other country is any better off than we are...something as silly as money is not going to be the end of the world...but it may be the end of the world as we know it...
i am very intrigued as to what may happen...most likely will happen in our lifetime too...
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try swimming upstream...
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 16,161
Loc: In a Tree
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Quote:
Vermonster420 said:
That's your opinion Meams and I suppose you're entitled to it. How else do you explain the several trillion dollars of debt the federal gov't is in? Debt with inability to pay back is the definition of bankrupt right?
Who says we have the inability to pay it back?
governments in the past have sustained much higher ratios of debt/GDP, and been just fine. we're not in a bad spot whatsoever. Im' not saying the current growth of debt is sustainable, i'm just saying it's not horrible at its present state. It clearly needs to be handled, but it's not an impending disaster like you all make it out to be.
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover
Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
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Re: You all following this? [Re: meams]
#9173741 - 11/02/08 05:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Meams, what's your take on the credit buy swaps and the world wide derivative market? I'm hearing that the bad housing buy swaps are going for 50 or so Trillion and that the worldwide market is 500 Trillion plus. Doesn't the card house have to fall at some point or can economies somehow sustain these blows?
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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 16,161
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: You all following this? [Re: whattheheck]
#9174385 - 11/02/08 07:20 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not going to even attempt to try to explain credit default swaps or to justify their existence.
I believe their damage has been done. But yes, they were exponentially huge
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whattheheck
Chief Love Lover
Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
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Re: You all following this? [Re: meams]
#9174423 - 11/02/08 07:27 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Whoops. No I feel I have a good enough grasp on what credit default swaps are and the derivative market is. What I'm saying is how can you look at both the US and the World economic situation and well, at this point you're saying their damage has been done. The consensus view that I have understood is that the pain of the situation is only beginning to be felt and will have huge and possibly crippling effects.
Hope this is coming off in a pleasurable and friendly tone. I'm just looking for knowledge and thoughtful discussion 
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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
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