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 zouden
Neuroscientist
 
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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 Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College?  [Re: johnm214]
#9071573 - 10/13/08 05:32 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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>no, it would be a popular vote delivered in discreet units.
Yes, I suppose it wouldn't be exactly the same, it would be close but less accurate due to rounding errors etc as you said. I think weighted electoral votes is a ridiculous hack on top of a feeble system.
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I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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 johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,562
Loc: Americas
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: pinkfloydms]
#9071605 - 10/13/08 05:39 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
pinkfloydms said:
Quote:
The popular vote doesn't mean shit in who the electorate chooses, it doesn't say anywhere that the electoral college is suppose to be swayed by popular vote. The only place voting makes a difference is on the local level.
On the state level it does mean shit.
The person who wins so many votes gets an elector in many states (don't know how many or if all of them get to appoint there electors). He appoints that elector. You think he'll appoint someone who will vote for someone else? Nope.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: johnm214]
#9071629 - 10/13/08 05:46 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, there is a direct link between the the popular vote and the electoral vote. It's just not a very strong one. The problem is that it weakens your representation - liberals in Austin or conservatives in California essentially get no voice because they are forced to vote along with the rest of their state.
The electoral college itself is not a bad idea - but grouping them by state? WTF?
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I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,343
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck 
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: zouden]
#9071707 - 10/13/08 06:07 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said:
Weighted electoral votes would be exactly the same as a popular vote.
sure, by way of further disenfranchising the independent
voters and help maintain the power of a 2 party system, the
problem with the electoral college is that the constitution
gives the states the right to assign the electors in any way
it sees fit, it can assign them to vote for the winner of the
national popular vote regardless of who won the state
currently blacks claim to be disenfranchised under the system
as having less than adequate representation, adding 2 votes to
be assigned by the state in a manor they see fit will do
little more than add an extra 102 votes to the electoral
college and then force them to vote by state winner, if that's
the case bush would have won ohio in 2004 and still been
president
now if I'm wrong, I'd love for you guys to explain it to me,
I'm all about popular vote since this isnt a horse race but a
hand job contest
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,343
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: zouden]
#9071720 - 10/13/08 06:09 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said:
Yeah, there is a direct link between the the popular vote and the electoral vote. It's just not a very strong one. The problem is that it weakens your representation - liberals in Austin or conservatives in California essentially get no voice because they are forced to vote along with the rest of their state.
states assign the electoral vote, by popular vote everyones
vote is equal, the electoral college weakens the vote, under
the popular system each vote is just that, with electors one
group is disregarded for instance blacks in georgia
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
|
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9071821 - 10/13/08 06:22 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
states assign the electoral vote, by popular vote everyones
vote is equal, the electoral college weakens the vote, under
the popular system each vote is just that, with electors one
group is disregarded for instance blacks in georgia
Indeed. The system as it stands is undemocratic.
No, that's not quite true. It's a little bit democratic, but not as good as it could be (or what some other countries have).
--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,343
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: zouden]
#9071879 - 10/13/08 06:37 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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luckily we're not other countries, things could be a lot worse,
a situation where our new found democracy is aided by americans
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
|
zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
|
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#9071916 - 10/13/08 06:44 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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>things could be a lot worse
But they could be a lot better. There's no reason not to update the voting system, bringing in instant-runoff as well as eliminating the electoral college. The only people who stand to lose are those in power.
--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,253
Last seen: 5 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: johnm214]
#9071923 - 10/13/08 06:46 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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From what I remember of history, California was not one of the original 13 states that had to be herded together to draft a constitution. Without disproportionate representation for small states there would be no union. We would be balkanized. Now, we are stuck with it.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,343
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Popular Vote meaningless? Electoral College? [Re: zouden]
#9071937 - 10/13/08 06:51 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said:
There's no reason not to update the voting system
The only people who stand to lose are those in power.
and that's why we still have the electoral college, I certainly
wouldnt want to vote myself out of a job, especially if my only
other income is as the chairman of some large corporation that
manages to land no-bid military contracts
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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