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 johnm214
 
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,290
Loc: Americas
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 Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA]  [Re: Mr. Middle]
#9057386 - 10/10/08 05:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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So... you support discriminatory prosecutions or what?
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 Chemy
Jesus is Lord
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 6,276
Loc: A Church
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: shroomie_glen]
#9057559 - 10/10/08 07:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomie_glen said:
Obama stated that all non-violent drug offenders will get NO prison time. This includes dealers that dont have guns on them.
Just the first step though....
McCain said he'd start a government program similar to welfare that gives marijuana, LSD and mushrooms to indigent people free of charge.
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Mr. Middle
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 6,522
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#9058824 - 10/10/08 12:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
So... you support discriminatory prosecutions or what?
I don't actually but if they have to 'fight drugs' they should fight meth.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,290
Loc: Americas
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: Mr. Middle]
#9059951 - 10/10/08 04:07 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Agreed, I'm just saying the laws should be vigorously enforced as written as a matter of public policy.
When you get into which law you are going to enforce you open the door for the mayor's kid to not be prosecuted for his offense but you being prosecuted for yours.
One day perhaps we'll realize that only things which harm another's rights should be criminal. Till then, at least enforce the laws evenly in my opinion.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,193
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#9060130 - 10/10/08 04:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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>> I don't actually but if they have to 'fight drugs' they should fight meth.
> Agreed
I disagree. I don't believe in the "my drug is better than your drug, thus my drug should be legal while your drug should be illegal" hypocrisy. It is no different than alcohol and cannabis. All drugs should be legal, and people that commit crimes should be punished for those crimes.
Although meth may be a horrid evil drug, it is not my place to tell somebody that they cannot put it into their body. If that person does something illegal because they are on meth, then arrest them and prosecute them for the crime committed. Alcohol causes people to do some horrendous crimes, but we don't outlaw it because of the potential of alcohol to cause people to commit crimes.
Guilty before committing a crime is worse than guilty until proven innocent as far as I am concerned. I have known several people that have used meth recreationally and not had any problems. (I happen to be one of them, though I haven't touched it in over a decade.)
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Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,290
Loc: Americas
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: Seuss]
#9061702 - 10/11/08 01:21 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well I agree, but I also say that if their is a substance to be made illegal it is better methamphetamine than marijuana, I don't think this is inconsistant with your contentions, and its all I was trying to communicate. I don't agree that "they" should go after meth and not marijuana if "they" is the police and not lawmakers.
Of course we don't have a system where we pick a drug to the exclusion of others to be made illegal. We have comprehensive prohibition on a wide range of drugs. And so my advocacy in the above is not relevant to real world situations. There is no requirement that one drug be illegal and one legal.
Although I don't even know if meth or marijuana can be said to be worse than each other from a societal utilitarian point of view. Meth has somwhat unique benifits that I don't think are well encompased in other available drugs whereas marijuana's benifits are probably more minor, ignoring recreational use.
But yeah, it comes down to whether people are willing to extend their personal decisions about what society should be encouraging or discouraging to the actual case of a person being arrested or jailed because they made, sold, or used a drug without getting government permission. That should never happen and I categorically oppose it with any drug. Its even more absurd when meth can be used, and is used, in a nonrecreational manner- a facet which is all but ignored in the latest moral panic.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,193
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 22 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#9061925 - 10/11/08 02:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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> I don't agree that "they" should go after meth and not marijuana if "they" is the police and not lawmakers.
Ah, I see what you mean. The police shouldn't be deciding what part of the law to enforce and what part to ignore? Gotcha.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Mr. Middle
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 6,522
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: Seuss]
#9061977 - 10/11/08 03:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I know this debate has been raised before but I didn't take part in it.
Please compare the environmental toxicity of a meth lab vs. a cannabis or mushroom garden or even a DMT or LSD lab.
Would you want to breathe the fumes from a neighbors cookery?
Meth labs should certainly be illegal in residential areas.
Meth is also different because of it's potency.
I got totally tweaked just from the second hand smoke once.
I've never gotten more than a light buzz from second hand Cannabis.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,290
Loc: Americas
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: Mr. Middle]
#9061983 - 10/11/08 04:00 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The methlab stuff is pure hype and a little the result of idiots cooking without proper equipement. With condensors for refluxing- instead of straight boiling which is probably what the fools do, a fume hood, and proper waste disposal you shouldn't have any danger.
Contaminating a neighborhood is one thing that should be a crime, but I seriuosly doubt anyone does that. At most the idiots flood their house with fumes of lord knows what cuz they're too stupid to spend thirty butocks on a round bottom flask, a condensor, and an adaptor for the faucet to run the water through the condensor.
But we're ignoring the obvious that jackasses wouldn't be making meth if it were legally available to the consumers. Problem solved.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,193
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 22 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: Mr. Middle]
#9062018 - 10/11/08 04:25 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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> Please compare the environmental toxicity of a meth lab vs. a cannabis or mushroom garden or even a DMT or LSD lab.
Pointless. If all drugs were legal, then there would be no drug labs, as it would be cheaper and safer to walk to the local drug store and buy standardized, clean drugs.
> Meth is also different because of it's potency.
Potency is in dosage. If you want to get technical, LSD is much more potent (per weight) than meth. Nicotine is much more potent (per weight) than meth.
> I got totally tweaked just from the second hand smoke once.
I'm not saying it should be legal to walk down the street smoking meth. Personally, I don't like people that walk down the street smoking cigarettes. If you want to do drugs, be they alcohol, nicotine/cigarettes, or meth, do them in your own home or in designated places (such as bars).
Also, not all meth is smoked.
Finally, assuming the above (with respect to locale), it is your choice to be around people that are doing whatever drug.
It really boils down to "who am I to decide what you can or cannot put into your own body?" What you do to yourself in your own home should be no concern of mine. If what you do in your own home leads to other problems, then, and only then, should I get involved.
(And I am arguing a completely different topic than what John was speaking of above. I am claiming that the law against drugs is unjust and should be done away with. I am not claiming that the law as it exists should be capriciously enforced by police.)
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 24,722
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: Mr. Middle]
#9062783 - 10/11/08 10:50 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Please compare the environmental toxicity of a meth lab vs. a cannabis or mushroom garden or even a DMT or LSD lab.
Meth labs only create environmental toxicity due to gross negligence. Many meth cooks take care of their waste and reuse their solvents. The police hype about contaminating whole neighborhoods is just hype.
Any chemical process will leave waste, its up to the chemist to properly dispose of the waste. The war on drugs often makes it difficult to do that.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,290
Loc: Americas
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Re: DEA raids medical marijuana dispensary in Laguna Beach [CA] [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#9063873 - 10/11/08 03:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
Please compare the environmental toxicity of a meth lab vs. a cannabis or mushroom garden or even a DMT or LSD lab.
Meth labs only create environmental toxicity due to gross negligence. Many meth cooks take care of their waste and reuse their solvents. The police hype about contaminating whole neighborhoods is just hype.
Any chemical process will leave waste, its up to the chemist to properly dispose of the waste. The war on drugs often makes it difficult to do that.
exactly
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