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 awesomebastard
Lost
 
Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 4,891
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 Fractals? 
#9055366 - 10/09/08 06:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I hear alot of talk around hear about fractals and their significance.
What exactly do you mean when you say that consciousness is factaline in structure.
What is the real relevance of fractals?
Why are they so fascinating to you?
I just dont get it.
When I have "seen" my consciousness laid before me it was
more of a complex flow chart/grid than a fractal.
I am not saying your wrong I am genuinely curious what all this
interest with fractals is all about besides the fact that they "look cool".
If you can explain your thoughts or experiences please do,
This thread will not turn into a debate on beliefs I simply want
experiences theories and explanations if that is possible.
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"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds and fanatics." ~ C.J. Keyser
Mr. Cypher said: "I just tell the girls how sexy I am and their panties melt."
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 SkekTek
Lurker
Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 287
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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A fractal to me is so interesting because it seems random, but in reality it's not. There's a pattern there.
the world around me seems much the same way.
beginningendbeginningendbeginningend...but niether really exist. infinite. difficult to comprehend from our perspective.
Edited by SkekTek (10/09/08 06:24 PM)
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SkekTek
Lurker
Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 287
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Re: Fractals? [Re: SkekTek]
#9055458 - 10/09/08 06:29 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm sorry. I am totally baked right now, so that comment was probably retarded. But sometimes I think we're in a fractal, and nothing that we will do hasn't happened before, ad infinitum. It's a hand grenade exploding over and over. And we are only sparks flickering in the cosmic fire.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,787
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Fractals? [Re: SkekTek]
#9055546 - 10/09/08 06:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am genuinely curious what all this
interest with fractals is all about besides the fact that they "look cool".
Me too.
They have some useful applications, and they are interesting philosophically. And they look cool. Oh wait...
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Revelation
ॐ
Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,031
Loc: heart cave
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It's cuz we see them when we trip, and a lot of things in nature look like fractals, and the universe might actually BE fractal.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,629
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what does it mean when you say the universe might be fractal
aside from the observation that nature is made of subunits combining into larger forms that combine as if they were also subunits at such rhythmic pacing such that when scaled up the larger parts seem very close to the tiny parts they are made of, here and there not always but
unexpectedly forming patterns that echo micro-cosmically or macro cosmically in curious ways.
could it just be like the resonance of tuning forks ramified and compounded?
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Arden
לנשום
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7,648
Loc: Α & Ω 
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Most people give little credence to the mathematics of fractals, which is where it all began. To my mind, the biggest philosophical implications comes from chaos theory (see book: Chaos, Choice, and Chance), which among other factors, takes original presumptions about unstable systems such as weather and shows that there still exists patterns in their unpredictability.
The self-repeating characteristics of fractals can be applied to dynamic systems like the human nervous system, leaf structure, art (e.g. Jackson Pollock), etc.
The application to consciousness is a bit more abstract, but as with everything else, it can be construed as an appropriate metaphor.
"Unintentional" fractals in African architecture:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ron_eglash_on_african_fractals.html
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,629
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Re: Fractals? [Re: Arden]
#9056301 - 10/09/08 09:13 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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what is the mathematics of fractals
is it different than other math
is chaos theory math?
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,787
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Chaos theory is math, you've heard of Poincare right? That dude was awesome. He discovered chaos from the three-body problem. It was almost a hundred years later when fractals were invented. Fractals exhibit chaos, but not all chaotic models are a fractal.
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figmentfragment
leaving shroomery
Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 1,226
Loc: 
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Fractals to me are amazing for a few reasons, their mathematical perfection, the element of infinity.
I find them very beautiful, represented in an artistic way. And I seem to experience a sort of calm when looking at them...
I am unsure of any other significance fractals may hold, spiritual or otherwise...the possibility is there, but I am not overly fussed to be honest.
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Goodbye Shroomery.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,787
Loc: Street of Dreams
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What is mathematical perfection? How would I know it when I see it?
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figmentfragment
leaving shroomery
Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 1,226
Loc:
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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yeah, that did have quite a whiff of bullshit to it.
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Goodbye Shroomery.
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Patisotagami
Organism
Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 686
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 22 days, 6 hours
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Re: Fractals? [Re: SkekTek]
#9056990 - 10/09/08 11:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SkekTek said:
I'm sorry. I am totally baked right now, so that comment was probably retarded. But sometimes I think we're in a fractal, and nothing that we will do hasn't happened before, ad infinitum. It's a hand grenade exploding over and over. And we are only sparks flickering in the cosmic fire.
i think my mind just exploded a little bit.
I completely understand what you mean.
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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING
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Patisotagami
Organism
Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 686
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 22 days, 6 hours
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Quote:
Revelation said:
It's cuz we see them when we trip, and a lot of things in nature look like fractals, and the universe might actually BE fractal.
Why does one need to look through telescopes to see the infiniteness of our existence?
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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,629
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I think this is about logrhythms spirals and functions that are iterated on logrhythmic basis (i.e. exponential, and fractionally exponential). i.e. all of nature and natural living processes implement a kind of growth that extends upon other ongoing growth, and until a living thing dies, its new paths and positions are dependent upon where it has been, shaped dependently upon how it was shaped.
like the fern plant for instance, which grows at every point but seems to be a spiral unfolding.
trajectories for thousands of objects can be followed and extrapolated, but they are not exactly chaos.
who here knows the formulae that are essential to fractals and who can see how those are connected with the phenomena observed when stoned or epiphanic.
there is more to this than just Oh Wow!, but there is not some special underlying key to the universe either, i.e. it is secondary to the more primary idea of sustainable life forms, and growth; sustainable crystalization too.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 13,629
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In the above Photo, you should look at the hairs, there is so much to learn about the hairs and the whole nature of chaos.
Each of those hairs is composed of cells with the same kind of DNA as the rest of the plant.
while differentiating at the freshest growing tip, all cells are equally hair bud like at first but some are arranged just so that they become the fleshy core and grow (AND DIVIDE - math - hello!) as a stem or as a branching leaf, like music or harmony - just in the right place.
Even though they have just as much potential to continue their journey as a hair cells, they change to stem or leaf cells etc.
the fractal dance is in each case a particular story of differentiation of like parts based upon their relative positionment and the vigor of growth (which is the expression of their complex -evolved - inner nature / DNA - and that story is very complicated)
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wyldeman007
Student
Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 309
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Last seen: 20 days, 10 hours
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"Take a point called Z in the complex plane
Let Z1 be Z squared plus C
And Z2 is Z1 squared plus C
And Z3 is Z2 squared plus C and so on
If the series of Zs should always stay
Close to Z and never trend away
That point is in the Mandelbrot Set"
The only philosophical implications that fractals (especially the Mandelbrot set) provide for me, is that infinite complexity can arise out of very simple rules (not in nature though).
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"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here." - Richard Dawkins
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,521
Loc: underbelly
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I just dont get it.
Humans continually need a new thing (that's not really new) to get worked up about.
It's like porn, you continually need a new face and bod to be stimulated.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Fractals and iteration are one of the most sophisticated phenomena that we can generate with a set of simple rules.
I think part of their attraction is the infinite complexity inherent in their design that is compressed into a finite space.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,521
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Fractals? [Re: deCypher]
#9058169 - 10/10/08 09:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's what I said.:D
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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