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 b0red5tiff
NWO Disinformation Agent
 
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 17,617
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 every philosophical & spiritual question a person has 
#9043745 - 10/07/08 04:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality? and that every idea the person thinks about & seeks answers to are available only in the world view of his/her views to reality.
what i mean is, the question represents the person himself, his views and experiences in life. that there is very little that is objective when it comes to existential questions because all those questions are very personal.
am i right, or am i deluded?
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Trading random Cubensis prints for stuff, PM me!
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 BackwardsCap
the great
Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Wherever you see me
Last seen: 1 year, 6 days
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: b0red5tiff]
#9043869 - 10/07/08 04:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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are you sure you really want to ask that question? you'll just get a subjective answer.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: b0red5tiff]
#9043870 - 10/07/08 05:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
b0red5tiff said:
aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality? and that every idea the person thinks about & seeks answers to are available only in the world view of his/her views to reality.
what i mean is, the question represents the person himself, his views and experiences in life. that there is very little that is objective when it comes to existential questions because all those questions are very personal.
am i right, or am i deluded?
Plato would smack you in the face.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,521
Loc: underbelly
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: b0red5tiff]
#9043894 - 10/07/08 05:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality?
Yes initially, but the answers to their questions can sometimes alter their vision of reality. It's an ugly process.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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BackwardsCap
the great
Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Wherever you see me
Last seen: 1 year, 6 days
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
#9044014 - 10/07/08 05:28 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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so did you have a specific question in mind when posting?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,521
Loc: underbelly
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: BackwardsCap]
#9044033 - 10/07/08 05:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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me?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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b0red5tiff
NWO Disinformation Agent
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 17,617
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
#9044336 - 10/07/08 06:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yes initially, but the answers to their questions can sometimes alter their vision of reality. It's an ugly process.
i agree. but the "meta reality" is that your vision of reality will always be altered, with you knowing or not knowing it.
thus once you acknowledge the continuous process of reality changing around AND inside yourself then what?
in my view, as i experience it, all the questions are meaningless because the answers don't really matter. experiencing reality directly is what matters, and your relationship to it.
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Trading random Cubensis prints for stuff, PM me!
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Boots
Disenchanted
Registered: 07/25/07
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Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: b0red5tiff]
#9044505 - 10/07/08 06:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, I agree with the assertion that all questions are conditioned to be thus so. And the answers given are conditioned as well. What other option is there? That every question is inherent?
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b0red5tiff
NWO Disinformation Agent
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 17,617
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Boots]
#9044549 - 10/07/08 06:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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imo the more you ask the more you get answers. and the answers don't "really" answer anything, they may only present you with more questions.
that's my take on it and i've reduced asking questions to a minimum. it seems far better to ask questions for yourself and seek a true answer. and then ask "why did i ask myself that?"
that way i always keep in check of myself as to where my interests and motives lie. and the more i practice this the more i start learning to find the answers myself. just looking them up in a book or deciding on an answer.
what i want to achieve by this is blurring the line between wasteful questioning and answering and reaching an amalgamation - where the answer is the question and vice versa.
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Trading random Cubensis prints for stuff, PM me!
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Arden
לנשום
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7,648
Loc: Α & Ω 
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: b0red5tiff]
#9045558 - 10/07/08 09:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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If the validity of argumentation was paired with the subjectivity of the individual, then anything goes. Solipsism aside, such a standpoint makes for boring philosophical debate.
Quote:
aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality?
Assuming that reality always stays confined to the person. When one assumes external, disparate realities exist, then one must realize a subjective bias exists in any one particular world view.
In order to answer this question, you really need to define reality. It is localized in someone's mind, or does it exist independent of perception?
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zannennagara
Found in Space
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 423
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: b0red5tiff]
#9046072 - 10/08/08 12:17 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
b0red5tiff said:
aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality? and that every idea the person thinks about & seeks answers to are available only in the world view of his/her views to reality.
what i mean is, the question represents the person himself, his views and experiences in life. that there is very little that is objective when it comes to existential questions because all those questions are very personal.
am i right, or am i deluded?
A person's questions/answers may be dependent on that person's vision of reality, but what is that dependent on? The more personal-seeming things can be explained in an objective way if the person seeks to do this - if we want to believe that subjectivity leads inevitably to existential despair and separation, we will have good company (interesting), but maybe not wanting those things we will look for the objectivity behind the subjectivity.
Subjectively, one poster could come in here and call you deluded and another could call you right, and your response would probably be to believe you're right, and even if you agree you're deluded you will assume you're right about that.
If they say you are deluded, they believe that philosospiritual questions are objective and independent of a person's vision, which means that your questions are objective and independent of your vision; they are universal concepts that apply to everyone.
If they say you are right, they believe that these questions are subjective and agree thus with the objectivity of your dilemma and questions; they are true and thus universal concepts that apply to everyone.
If there's going to be a theory on irreconcilable individual subjectivity, how could so many people agree on it?
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No debe haber separación, no puede haber definición.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,521
Loc: underbelly
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: b0red5tiff]
#9047174 - 10/08/08 10:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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experiencing reality directly is what matters, and your relationship to it.
Why? How is that more meaningful then anything else?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,026
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: b0red5tiff]
#9047718 - 10/08/08 12:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
b0red5tiff said:
aren't all those questions about life & existence etc dependent of that persons vision of reality? and that every idea the person thinks about & seeks answers to are available only in the world view of his/her views to reality.
what i mean is, the question represents the person himself, his views and experiences in life. that there is very little that is objective when it comes to existential questions because all those questions are very personal.
am i right, or am i deluded?
I think you got it both wrong & right, the two highest spiritual/philosohical questions are 'who are we?' & where do we come from?' all beings ponder this on some level, even if only very subtley.
When a being starts looking for absolute truth then the same questions will apply, so theres nothing personal about it really, maybe something personal seems like it brought them to ask such questions, like a death of a relative seems pretty personal & causes many people to seek the truth of existence, but the actuality of death itself is completely impersonal, as we ALL die, so it all seems very personal but all beings go through the same thing.
Your right in saying that there is very little objective investment when it comes to existential questions as the focus is beggining to turn away from the objects to wonder 'what is life, who am i?' & only the subject (taken to be personal) can satisfy these questions, it may feel personal as its internal, but essentially the search is universal not personal.
But the universal is discovered through diving deeper into what we casually take to be personal, so your both right & wrong.
Its a search for universal truth, so to find it there can't be a 'person' seeking it & finding it, its the universe discovered unto itself. 
Quote:
Icelander said:
experiencing reality directly is what matters, and your relationship to it.
Why? How is that more meaningful then anything else?
WTF? You dont think reality & your relationship to it is the most important thing to experience? Seriously!?
Edited by The Chronic (10/08/08 12:42 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,521
Loc: underbelly
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: The Chronic]
#9048983 - 10/08/08 04:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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WTF? You dont think reality & your relationship to it is the most important thing to experience? Seriously!?
No. I know I can't know what reality is. Pleasure and surrender would be my most important.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Muffinman1552
Homo Evolutis
Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 47
Last seen: 5 months, 29 days
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: BackwardsCap]
#14777861 - 07/16/11 02:08 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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well this is a Transcendence question.
We all see the same reality, however, the words and the labels that we notice or see of it differ on account of our perceptions (the language of our Operating program, The Ego, Filter) that our minds run on.
In Talking to people and taking in the validity of other ideas, we begin to expand a more pure perception of reality.
For Example:
~ a circle of Artists sitting around a Still Life
~ Each artist draws a two dimensional image of what they see of the still life, in accordance with the limit of their veiw.
~ They give all of these 2D images to a sculptor.
~ The sculptor creates a 3D representation of the original still life.
I hope this helps
Light and Blessings
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The All is in All
(Everything that I post is Hypothetical)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,521
Loc: underbelly
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Muffinman1552]
#14778040 - 07/16/11 02:56 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Muffinman1552
Homo Evolutis
Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 47
Last seen: 5 months, 29 days
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: The Chronic]
#14778080 - 07/16/11 03:10 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
But the universal is discovered through diving deeper into what we casually take to be personal, so your both right & wrong.
Quote:
Most agreed.
All Truths are Half Truths.
That is why we must be open to So Many ideas.
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The All is in All
(Everything that I post is Hypothetical)
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Muffinman1552
Homo Evolutis
Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 47
Last seen: 5 months, 29 days
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
#14778219 - 07/16/11 03:49 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I appreciate that one sided comment, how progressive.
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The All is in All
(Everything that I post is Hypothetical)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,521
Loc: underbelly
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Muffinman1552]
#14778225 - 07/16/11 03:50 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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I know it's not as progressive as digging up some old worn out thread from years ago. 
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Muffinman1552
Homo Evolutis
Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 47
Last seen: 5 months, 29 days
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Re: every philosophical & spiritual question a person has [Re: Icelander]
#14778237 - 07/16/11 03:53 PM (10 months, 6 days ago) |
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wasnt looking at the date
just the topic and subject.
time has little relevance in anything relevant.
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The All is in All
(Everything that I post is Hypothetical)
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