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 x7x_x7x
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 shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain 
#9015684 - 10/01/08 08:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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few months ago i inoculate shiitake spawn in newspaper. three fruits appear and i clone all three. the result is a strain who colonize and fruit faster than commercial counterpart. my hypotheses is mycelium was adapted to a hard to grow environment, when inoculated in optimal conditions perform better than standard strain.
i think the experiment worth the work, try it.
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growing a dream
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x7x_x7x@shroomery.org
Edited by x7x_x7x (10/02/08 07:57 AM)
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 wisp
Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
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 Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: x7x_x7x]
#9015691 - 10/01/08 08:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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It certainly sounds interesting. Did you cold shock the newpaper block like you would sawdust?
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denger
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: wisp]
#9017306 - 10/02/08 07:03 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stamets does say in GGMM that mycelium does adapt to the substrate. He also talks about some strains being more adaptable then others. Did you inoculate the newspaper with spores or with mycelia?
If former, then there is a problem of senescence to combat.
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Dennis, in Love with Fungi
My improved magnetic stirrer
Breeding mushroom strains
Potato-Honey-Yeast-Agar Tek
Looking for Chantarelle and Armillaria cultures, have a huge collection of other edibles to trade.
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x7x_x7x
Working on it
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: wisp]
#9017444 - 10/02/08 07:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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no treatment at all, no cold shock neither submerge in water
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growing a dream
SuctoSpore® Pictorial Tek
x7x_x7x@shroomery.org
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x7x_x7x
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: denger]
#9017448 - 10/02/08 07:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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i inoculated the block with grain spawm
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growing a dream
SuctoSpore® Pictorial Tek
x7x_x7x@shroomery.org
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wisp
Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 5,304
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: x7x_x7x]
#9017467 - 10/02/08 08:06 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wow, those mushrooms sound like they had a hard life to get to fruiting without dunking or cold shocking. Nice work, I wonder if you're hypohesis is correct?
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x7x_x7x
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: wisp]
#9017530 - 10/02/08 08:31 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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i dont know but trust me, they colonize in 1 month and fruit better than the parent strain. the research continues... 
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growing a dream
SuctoSpore® Pictorial Tek
x7x_x7x@shroomery.org
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Paresthesia
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: wisp]
#9017617 - 10/02/08 09:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Er... okay, maybe I don't understand the question here, but wouldn't the fruits taken from the newspaper be genetically identical to the strain introduced via grain spawn?
Edit: Unless you mean... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics ?!
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"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."
- T. S. Eliot
I'm currently looking for cultures of the following species:
Calocybe indica, Chlorophyllum rachodes, Lentinula boryana, Polyporus umbellatus
Edited by Paresthesia (10/02/08 09:32 AM)
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x7x_x7x
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: Paresthesia]
#9017738 - 10/02/08 09:41 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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i dont know  but the fenotipe is really good
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growing a dream
SuctoSpore® Pictorial Tek
x7x_x7x@shroomery.org
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denger
Mycelium keeper
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: x7x_x7x]
#9018180 - 10/02/08 11:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Paresthesia: in practice, fungi are very pliable genetically. Senescence is one of the proofs of this. The substrate is an easy mechanism to select for somatic mutations favoring the substrate.
Another way this could happen is by activating normally dormant biochemical pathways that allow for a better digestion of this substrate type at the gene expression level (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_regulation for a primer on this).
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Dennis, in Love with Fungi
My improved magnetic stirrer
Breeding mushroom strains
Potato-Honey-Yeast-Agar Tek
Looking for Chantarelle and Armillaria cultures, have a huge collection of other edibles to trade.
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Paresthesia
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: denger]
#9018596 - 10/02/08 01:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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To me this really seems counterintuitive. I would think that changing substrates would only encourage the organism to produce the enzymes needed to break the new substrate down, not change the underlying genetic code of the organism... but then it's not like fungi have tissues and organs or anything, is it?
It's like, uh.. a person lacking the ability to process lactose suddenly being able to drink milk after trying it a few times... then being able to pass that trait on to his or her progeny. No? Apparently not.
Fungi are aliens. I'm convinced.
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drwatson
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: Paresthesia]
#9020363 - 10/02/08 07:28 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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don't mean to hi-jack the thread topic but I've thought about mushrooms being from space. . . . if spores can survive entering our atmosphere than mushrooms might be a universal life-form.
But can they survive the entry from space? A topic for another thread and forum perhaps. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
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x7x_x7x
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: drwatson]
#9020398 - 10/02/08 07:35 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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totally agree, not only mushrooms, some cacti looks very outerspace
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growing a dream
SuctoSpore® Pictorial Tek
x7x_x7x@shroomery.org
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denger
Mycelium keeper
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: x7x_x7x]
#9020571 - 10/02/08 08:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Especially when consumed raw 
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Dennis, in Love with Fungi
My improved magnetic stirrer
Breeding mushroom strains
Potato-Honey-Yeast-Agar Tek
Looking for Chantarelle and Armillaria cultures, have a huge collection of other edibles to trade.
|
denger
Mycelium keeper
Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 712
Loc: MD, US
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: Paresthesia]
#9020630 - 10/02/08 08:18 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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P: I was talking about somatic mutations. Let me give you an example:
mutant orange
Above orange, which I picked from a grocery store pile because of this feature, obviously had a somatic mutation in one of the 8 cells when it was at the 8-cell embryo stage. Now, I don't know for sure if the seeds in that 1/8 (if any) would have produced trees with yellow oranges, because I dont know enough about development of the fruit. I do think its likely. Same possibility exist with mycelia, but to a higher degree of probability, because the media selects the organism for its ability to consume it. In essence if this is the case, then we are witnessing evolution and natural selection in technicolor.
As I mentioned above, there are other, non-genetic possibilities too. However, the fact remains, this is not the first description of a mushroom adapting to the media quickly, whatever the mechanism is.
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Dennis, in Love with Fungi
My improved magnetic stirrer
Breeding mushroom strains
Potato-Honey-Yeast-Agar Tek
Looking for Chantarelle and Armillaria cultures, have a huge collection of other edibles to trade.
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Paresthesia
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Re: shiitake grown in paper perform better in sawdust than normal strain [Re: denger]
#9020985 - 10/02/08 09:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Er... huh?
I don't think it requires a rewrite of an organism's genetic code to produce a different mix of digestive enzymes.
I think the renewed vigor has more to do with nutritional density in the substrate. It just seems like a simpler explanation to me!
Awhile back I bought some of Stephen Peele's booklets from FMRC, and in one of these he suggests that senescence can be delayed indefinately by transferring mycelium between different agar mediums. I'm skeptical, but it could be that the clock gets turned back a bit every time the mycelium has to adapt to a new substrate. There may be something to this in that sense.
About the orange. Hm. For that to apply, wouldn't the yellow patch need to be caused by some environmental factor? I'm not sure about how it would be expressed in the seeds, either. I'm still trying to figure out why cross pollinating popcorn and sweet corn leads to injured teeth at dinner.
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"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."
- T. S. Eliot
I'm currently looking for cultures of the following species:
Calocybe indica, Chlorophyllum rachodes, Lentinula boryana, Polyporus umbellatus
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