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 smmu
Organism
Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 222
Last seen: 11 hours, 57 minutes
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By being what we truly are.
Each individual can only be what it truly is-- and become unified with all others. Once that happens, you will be satisfied, and there is no need to receive an award for a work you make, or etch your name on the side of a building.
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up and down
and in the end, it's all just round and round.
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smmu
Organism
Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 222
Last seen: 11 hours, 57 minutes
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Why are we any more precious than the spider crawling around outside?
Or the blade of grass in my lawn?
How can one organism be worth more than another? It is only when you assign priorities that they become worth more. And priorities are not fundamentally existent in nature... Everything serves its purpose.
What is humans' purpose though?
To take over land, kill everything we see, pollute, destroy, think we are superior, and then die?
We must seek out to become unified with the whole. Each one of us. Only through this can we learn to embrace all organisms as we do each other--and I'm not talking about the warmongers. I'm talking about the people who care about others.
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up and down
and in the end, it's all just round and round.
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ackack9000
Smart pants are risky
Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 258
Loc: Captain of the ship
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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 Re: Time... [Re: smmu]
#8891048 - 09/07/08 01:54 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
smmu said:
Why are we any more precious than the spider crawling around outside?
Or the blade of grass in my lawn?
How can one organism be worth more than another? It is only when you assign priorities that they become worth more. And priorities are not fundamentally existent in nature... Everything serves its purpose.
What is humans' purpose though?
To take over land, kill everything we see, pollute, destroy, think we are superior, and then die?
We must seek out to become unified with the whole. Each one of us. Only through this can we learn to embrace all organisms as we do each other--and I'm not talking about the warmongers. I'm talking about the people who care about others.
YES! I'm glad somebody doesn't have their head up their ass.
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[gradient:#FA7500,#000000]WOW WE LOVE YOU MISTER COOL!<!--/gradient//-->
[url=/forums/files/08-36/079935499-eye.jpg]
http://www.zefrank.com/sequencer/index.html
<!--gradient:#FF0808,#00FF04//-->WonderrrrfFulll I"m so fullll. If I was any more full my eyes would turn brown.[/gradient]
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Idiot
Freak Out!
Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 2,183
Loc: 41.902311, 12.453904
Last seen: 21 minutes, 46 seconds
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Re: Time... [Re: smmu]
#8892234 - 09/07/08 06:01 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
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I agree with you smmu, in debates like this it seems like humanity is of greatest value. When truthfully the value system is a product of humanity, things that we view as valuable are things that maintain life and happiness, fuck everything else. Although all other forms of life live in symbiosis with humanity. If one plant or animal is removed from existence on Earth it has the potential to negatively effect us immediately or in the long run. Not to mention all the inanimate threats that orbit the sun and the rouge threats that just happen to be thrown through our minuscule slice of existence.
I've gone off on a weird tangent, the thread topic seems to have too, but whatever. Here's a song that is sort of like the first post;
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dill705
fuckin' J key sticks
Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 2,252
Loc: A continual state of dark...
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Quote:
smmu said:
Why are we any more precious than the spider crawling around outside?
Or the blade of grass in my lawn?
How can one organism be worth more than another? It is only when you assign priorities that they become worth more. And priorities are not fundamentally existent in nature... Everything serves its purpose.
What is humans' purpose though?
To take over land, kill everything we see, pollute, destroy, think we are superior, and then die?
We must seek out to become unified with the whole. Each one of us. Only through this can we learn to embrace all organisms as we do each other--and I'm not talking about the warmongers. I'm talking about the people who care about others.
~dill's girlfriend~
I love reading things like this because it makes me feel like there is still hope for humanity or as ackack9000 put it:
Quote:
ackack9000 said:
YES! I'm glad somebody doesn't have their head up their ass.
Humans aren't more precious than a spider or a blade of grass,
humans created the idea that we are more important because we can think on higher levels and are {for our own defined purposes} intelligent,
but that is the only reason we are more important, because we say we are,
because we have grown up in a society that says we are, but that doesn't make it true
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Drug control - $12 billion/yr
Incarceration - $30 billion/yr
Police protection - $9.1 billion/yr
Legal adjudication - $4.5 billion/yr
Having a populous trained to recognize their own bodies as government regulated property, and to gorge exclusively on government approved brands of pharmaceuticals and fast food - PRICELESS
This sig brought to you by: ExplosiveMango ~ ripe fruity taste, explosive diahrea!
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 blewmeanie
Baruch haba b'Shem Adonai
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 6,895
Loc: Gainesville Fl
Last seen: 1 minute, 5 seconds
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Re: Time... [Re: dill705]
#8892391 - 09/07/08 06:36 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
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Then you wont mind if I go ahead and cut your head off instead of cutting my lawn today......right?
All organisms are only equal to one another because you view them as such within your mind. We are the latest and greatest thing in the line of evolution on this planet, and the only organisms capable of even asking such a question.
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Gazing through the
night and its stars,
or the grass and its bugs,
I know in my heart these swarms
are the craft of surpassing wisdom.
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,314
Last seen: 3 hours, 54 minutes
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Then you wont mind if I go ahead and cut your head off instead of cutting my lawn today......right?
All organisms are only equal to one another because you view them as such within your mind. We are the latest and greatest thing in the line of evolution on this planet, and the only organisms capable of even asking such a question.
I bet dogs think dogs are fuckin great.
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dill705
fuckin' J key sticks
Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 2,252
Loc: A continual state of dark...
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Then you wont mind if I go ahead and cut your head off instead of cutting my lawn today......right?
All organisms are only equal to one another because you view them as such within your mind. We are the latest and greatest thing in the line of evolution on this planet, and the only organisms capable of even asking such a question.
~dill's girlfriend~
If you cut off my head it would effect me and the small group of people that know me
If you cut your grass it effects your grass and the grass around it that is not your grass {like you neighbors}
Yes, I would rather you cut the grass, but the grass might prefer you cut off my head,
Would you rather put a pet you've had for 10 years to sleep or kill a complete stranger, had you the choice?
People define and assign importance.
Maybe your grass is less important to you then I am, but is a pet you've had for years? I am just some dumb girl on the Internet?
--------------------
Drug control - $12 billion/yr
Incarceration - $30 billion/yr
Police protection - $9.1 billion/yr
Legal adjudication - $4.5 billion/yr
Having a populous trained to recognize their own bodies as government regulated property, and to gorge exclusively on government approved brands of pharmaceuticals and fast food - PRICELESS
This sig brought to you by: ExplosiveMango ~ ripe fruity taste, explosive diahrea!
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smmu
Organism
Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 222
Last seen: 11 hours, 57 minutes
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Then you wont mind if I go ahead and cut your head off instead of cutting my lawn today......right?
All organisms are only equal to one another because you view them as such within your mind. We are the latest and greatest thing in the line of evolution on this planet, and the only organisms capable of even asking such a question.
I'm sorry, blewmeanie, but let's examine this logically.
Is it sensical to say that humans are the "latest and greatest" thing in evolution?
What separates us from a dog? I would assume that most people would think that our consciousness does. Our ability to think into the future and to reason. As you put it--to inquire as to our own nature--this makes us undeniably human.
But consciousness is also a double-edged sword. For it also gives us the ability to delude ourselves into thinking that what we think we know about the world is what is actually fundamentally truth, when in actuality it may not be--and in many instances is probably not.
Take, for instance, the question "Do good and evil exist fundamentally in the world?" If you were to ask very dogmatic, conservative people this, they would probably answer 'yes' without much thought. However, upon deeper introspection, we find that good and evil only exist within the realm of how one organism affects another organism. A rock sitting on the sidewalk is NOT inherently evil. However, it may take on that quality if someone was just tripped by that rock, or if we discover, after tripping over the rock, that it was placed there solely for the purpose of tripping pedestrians who walk by it.
Getting back to the original question, consciousness can trick us. We think that it makes us so much better than other organisms, but in actuality, does it really? It makes us different, that's for sure! But better? This is questionable.
The world existed in symbiosis for billions of years before humans were around, and will most likely exist far after we perish. Life will continue, the Universe will go on, evolution will keep moving forward, and we will continue standing in motion like we have been, always.
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up and down
and in the end, it's all just round and round.
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,314
Last seen: 3 hours, 54 minutes
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Re: Time... [Re: smmu]
#8892999 - 09/07/08 08:19 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
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Not to mention, we aren't the "latest" thing in evolution. Everything living around us is just as modern.
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Lakefingers
Proto-over-under-neo-modern
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 1,550
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: Time... [Re: smmu]
#8894138 - 09/08/08 12:12 AM (2 months, 25 days ago) |
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being what we truly are would be rare enough.
what can one truly be? truly? where does that fit in?
spiders are precious too. each that is itself
and is an 'each' is precious in itself,
because it is rare, it is itself...
but in array of many alike how and why would one distinguish
using an idea of value and significance
(like Icelander mentioned)?
Quote:
How can one organism be worth more than another? It is only when you assign priorities that they become worth more. And priorities are not fundamentally existent in nature... Everything serves its purpose.
now you're getting there.
what i am talking about is the ontological properties of value.
it's an investigation into what we're saying.
it's not about promoting worth and rank,
it's about investigating what we say when we say
"insignificant", which implies value
to understand humans you have to take into consideration everything
they do, I'm not sure our minds are capable of that,
but we can glimpse beyond presumptions about mankind being purely wonderful/purely cruel.
so once again value and significance are both timely and as several of you have said in our minds.
that doesn't mean it's wrong to talk about them,
or that we should just continue taking them at face value.
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Lakefingers
Proto-over-under-neo-modern
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 1,550
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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instead of getting angry when you don't understand
ask others what they mean
Edited by Lakefingers (09/08/08 12:24 AM)
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Lakefingers
Proto-over-under-neo-modern
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 1,550
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: Time... [Re: adrug]
#8911397 - 09/11/08 09:01 AM (2 months, 22 days ago) |
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i'm going to fold all my counterarguments (for Pinker) into this: it's very important to reflect on why an anglo-saxon is promoting the ideas
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blewmeanie
Baruch haba b'Shem Adonai
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 6,895
Loc: Gainesville Fl
Last seen: 1 minute, 5 seconds
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Quote:
Lakefingers said:
i'm going to fold all my counterarguments (for Pinker) into this: it's very important to reflect on why an anglo-saxon is promoting the ideas
What did I miss?......Smmu?....anglo-saxon?
I'm lost.
--------------------
Gazing through the
night and its stars,
or the grass and its bugs,
I know in my heart these swarms
are the craft of surpassing wisdom.
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BoxyBrown
riding the gravytrain
Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 521
Loc: america's wang
Last seen: 22 days, 23 hours
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Re: Time... [Re: smmu]
#8913910 - 09/11/08 05:56 PM (2 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
smmu said:
Quote from a textbook I am reading:
"Compress, for example, the entire 4.5 billion years of geologic time into a single year. On that scale, the oldest rocks we know date from about mid-March. Living things first appeared in the sea in May. Land plants and animals emerged in late November and the widespread swamps that formed the Pennsylvanian coal deposits flourished for about four days in early December.
Dinosaurs became dominant in mid-December, but disappeared on the 26th, at about the time the Rocky Mountains were first uplifted.
Manlike creatures appeared sometime during the evening of December 31st, and the most recent continental ice sheets began to recede from the Great Lakes and from northern Europe about 1 minute and 15 seconds before midnight on the 31st.
Rome ruled the Western world for 5 seconds from 11:59:45 to 11:59:50.
Columbus discovered america 3 seconds before midnight, and the science of geology was born with the writings of James Hutton just slightly more than one second before the end of our eventful year of years."
This little passage really puts the timelessness of it all into perspective for us, doesn't it? We really are just a tick on an eternal clock... a drop in a vast, endless cosmic sea of time... 
this is one of the missions will wright is trying to achieve with spore
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all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration.
we are all one concsiousness experiencing itself subjectly.
there is no such thing as life or death, life is only a dream in which we are the imagination of ourselves.
 8  8  274
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 shroomzey
Dreamer
Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 131
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Spore is fun, I started and finished the whole game in like 5 hours though =/
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 "I think of going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience like going to the grave without ever having sex. It means, that you never figured out what it was all about. The mystery, is in the body, and the way the body works itself into nature." -Terence McKenna
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Lakefingers
Proto-over-under-neo-modern
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 1,550
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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it's about the pinker video he posted
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smmu
Organism
Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 222
Last seen: 11 hours, 57 minutes
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Quote:
BoxyBrown said:
Quote:
smmu said:
Quote from a textbook I am reading:
"Compress, for example, the entire 4.5 billion years of geologic time into a single year. On that scale, the oldest rocks we know date from about mid-March. Living things first appeared in the sea in May. Land plants and animals emerged in late November and the widespread swamps that formed the Pennsylvanian coal deposits flourished for about four days in early December.
Dinosaurs became dominant in mid-December, but disappeared on the 26th, at about the time the Rocky Mountains were first uplifted.
Manlike creatures appeared sometime during the evening of December 31st, and the most recent continental ice sheets began to recede from the Great Lakes and from northern Europe about 1 minute and 15 seconds before midnight on the 31st.
Rome ruled the Western world for 5 seconds from 11:59:45 to 11:59:50.
Columbus discovered america 3 seconds before midnight, and the science of geology was born with the writings of James Hutton just slightly more than one second before the end of our eventful year of years."
This little passage really puts the timelessness of it all into perspective for us, doesn't it? We really are just a tick on an eternal clock... a drop in a vast, endless cosmic sea of time...
this is one of the missions will wright is trying to achieve with spore
I just checked out "spore" the game...
As a biologist, I don't know how I feel about this game. It seems to incorporate some basic principles of evolution... but is really based upon the idea of intelligent design, which is an impossible scenario and flawed hypothesis, in my opinion.
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up and down
and in the end, it's all just round and round.
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 7,652
Loc: The Union
Last seen: 30 minutes, 16 seconds
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Re: Time... [Re: smmu]
#8920595 - 09/12/08 08:05 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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Since when do video games conform to possible scenarios? 
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Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
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shroomzey
Dreamer
Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 131
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Re: Time... [Re: smmu]
#8921226 - 09/12/08 10:19 PM (2 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
smmu said:
Quote:
BoxyBrown said:
Quote:
smmu said:
Quote from a textbook I am reading:
"Compress, for example, the entire 4.5 billion years of geologic time into a single year. On that scale, the oldest rocks we know date from about mid-March. Living things first appeared in the sea in May. Land plants and animals emerged in late November and the widespread swamps that formed the Pennsylvanian coal deposits flourished for about four days in early December.
Dinosaurs became dominant in mid-December, but disappeared on the 26th, at about the time the Rocky Mountains were first uplifted.
Manlike creatures appeared sometime during the evening of December 31st, and the most recent continental ice sheets began to recede from the Great Lakes and from northern Europe about 1 minute and 15 seconds before midnight on the 31st.
Rome ruled the Western world for 5 seconds from 11:59:45 to 11:59:50.
Columbus discovered america 3 seconds before midnight, and the science of geology was born with the writings of James Hutton just slightly more than one second before the end of our eventful year of years."
This little passage really puts the timelessness of it all into perspective for us, doesn't it? We really are just a tick on an eternal clock... a drop in a vast, endless cosmic sea of time...
this is one of the missions will wright is trying to achieve with spore
I just checked out "spore" the game...
As a biologist, I don't know how I feel about this game. It seems to incorporate some basic principles of evolution... but is really based upon the idea of intelligent design, which is an impossible scenario and flawed hypothesis, in my opinion.
The only real "mission" will wright would mostly be aiming to achieve is a game that is directed by procedural design. He actually has a few lectures on the internet regarding spore. And as smmu said it incorporates some simple theme's of evolution. But the main mission was for will wright to create a game that involves a ton of user created content, powered by a procedural engine that lets the user basically create whatever he/she wants. It's a cool game, don't get me wrong, but you gotta realize the aim of any game is be sold, and whatever means it takes to create interest in the buying market is the real mission.
Funny how such a vague thread goes in so many directions, like life itself. =)
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"I think of going to the grave without having a psychedelic experience like going to the grave without ever having sex. It means, that you never figured out what it was all about. The mystery, is in the body, and the way the body works itself into nature." -Terence McKenna
Edited by shroomzey (09/12/08 10:21 PM)
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