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 rba
Stranger
Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 64
Last seen: 2 months, 13 days
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 Question about Christians here
#8884412 - 09/05/08 09:44 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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I have noticed that there are a number of posters here who claim to be Christians and ignore the influence of entheogens and astrology on the origins of Christianity.
I am very confused by the position of these people on this forum, who appear to me to be religious zealots. I am curious because this is a forum about magic mushrooms and although there are a lot of posters open to these ideas; I guess what I am wondering is, what is it about this forum that is attracting religious literalists?
Do these posters think of people who ingest mushrooms as self-injurious hedons who just need to be turned on to the word of God? Or do they themselves ingest mushrooms for reason separate from why I'd use them?
I am just confused if their presence is anything more than an elaborate trolling job.. Wouldn't there be better places to discuss how Jesus is a real person?
Furthermore, I am curious to know what people who don't view the entheogenic experience as a legitimate mystical experience think of the mushroom experience. Is this simply entertainment or hedonism or what? One time during my teenage years I spoke to a Catholic priest about drugs and he told me that their religion did not allow for drug use.
What I am curious about is, if these drugs are not the authentic religious experience, what are they to people who believe in Jesus and think that the stuff in the bible really happened? Just a good time? What's the deal?
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sealorcawhale
Revolution
Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 128
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: rba]
#8884497 - 09/05/08 10:09 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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I believe in Jesus.
Mushrooms (drugs of all kinds) are indeed different for everyone
I consider them holy, i'm fed up with the bullshit.
I just want to see everyone free....
mushroom experiences could be considered religious where i live at the mo in some cultures for example the amazon tribes are pretty into there Ayahuasca i have seen advertisements "come find God".The reason it's legal is because it s beneficial!
True that!
globaly warmed concrete streets of bull shit.
Maybe old pagan gods and unheard of gods created Jesus to show us something.
Ones Destiny is not written in Pages.
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Tchan909
plagiarist
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,609
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: rba]
#8884520 - 09/05/08 10:14 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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I wonder about this too for some folks (*cough*FivePointer*cough*).
Of course, I don't see the psychedelic experience to necessarily contradict religious dogmatism, unless you're personally prone to disagreeing with it.
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
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Shad0w
In trouble again.
Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 532
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: Tchan909]
#8884579 - 09/05/08 10:30 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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Well.... I guess it depends on each persons personal views.
I like the bible, I think it is talking about spiritual things.
I believe in God...... just cuz. Dont need a reason. Ya either do or dont.
Jesus..... hmmm, I am a flip flopper. I dont doubt that he actually existed at one point. Wether or not he was God? I dont know, But I am very skeptical.
Mushrooms are spiritual for me as well.
I like zen and buddhism and taoism.
Dunno about hindu or islam.
I usually say I am a christian becuase I was raised as one.
But, I dont really care about where or how people find spirituality...... I dont think every other religion besides mine is "going to hell" if there is a hell.
For all I know, the atheists are right and we are all just going to die, and that doesnt really bother me either.
I would say MOST of the christians that post here are not your "typical christian".... but I do wonder the same things about the few rampant literalists and how consuming drugs is "ok" with their God?
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sealorcawhale
Revolution
Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 128
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: Shad0w]
#8884635 - 09/05/08 10:47 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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Jesus was the direct son of god.
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sealorcawhale
Revolution
Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 128
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: sealorcawhale]
#8884639 - 09/05/08 10:49 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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you are merely brother or sister of jesus or not
Edited by sealorcawhale (09/05/08 10:50 PM)
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sealorcawhale
Revolution
Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 128
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: sealorcawhale]
#8884653 - 09/05/08 10:53 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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someone once said, hell is not a place you go if your not a christian, It's the failure to achieve your lifes greatest ambition.
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 Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,318
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: sealorcawhale]
#8884657 - 09/05/08 10:55 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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How the hell do you presume to know my life's greatest ambition? Speak for yourself.
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Tchan909
plagiarist
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Posts: 3,609
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: Oweyervishice]
#8884686 - 09/05/08 11:04 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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My life's greatest ambition is to bag a good wife, pump out a kid, and be a good father. Will I go to heaven if I pull it off?
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
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 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 6,511
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: rba]
#8884752 - 09/05/08 11:23 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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Mushrooms can certainly strengthen your pre-existing faith--a direct experience of gnosis as provided with psychedelics is entirely up to the interpretation of the experiencer.
Knowing Jesus is metaphysically equivalent to knowing Nirvana, in the grand scheme of subjectivity.
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we are born naked, wet, hungry, and torn from the woman we love. then things get worse.  
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mofo
inquisitor
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 786
Loc: Sol 3
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: rba]
#8884820 - 09/05/08 11:53 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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Gee rba, I was wondering why people feel the need to mock peoples' most personal spiritual convictions on a bulletin board about psychedelic mushrooms. When people post threads with titles like "Religion and Other Fairy Tales" the faithful are bound to be tempted. What do you expect? Politeness seems to be a lost art.
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learningtofly
Stranger
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: sealorcawhale]
#8884828 - 09/05/08 11:56 PM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
sealorcawhale said:
someone once said, hell is not a place you go if your not a christian, It's the failure to achieve your lifes greatest ambition.
it's from "Leaving the Past"
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GnuBobo said:
You're a stupid hippie. That's my point.
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Shad0w
In trouble again.
Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 532
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: learningtofly]
#8884850 - 09/06/08 12:02 AM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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Immortal Technique is awesome.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: deCypher]
#8884860 - 09/06/08 12:05 AM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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Do(n't) assume Christians are zealots.
Learn aikido, in case they forget themselves and attack.
Learn philosophy, help them remember they are being attacked.
Jesus is the only shield they will need. Simply remind them that they may drop the sword. If they refuse, it will only be themselves they cut. There is only one of us.
To attack them is to enforce the Christianity (the separation of mind and spirit).
Jesus is good, we can conceive this and pry him from the book of lies he was trapped inside.
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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
Stop knowing what you are and realize what you could be.
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sealorcawhale
Revolution
Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 128
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: mofo]
#8884869 - 09/06/08 12:08 AM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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MY BLACK BROTHER good word....
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Edited by sealorcawhale (09/06/08 12:09 AM)
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sealorcawhale
Revolution
Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 128
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Nice...
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,318
Last seen: 3 seconds
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Do(n't) assume Christians are zealots.
Learn aikido, in case they forget themselves and attack.
Learn philosophy, help them remember they are being attacked.
Jesus is the only shield they will need. Simply remind them that they may drop the sword. If they refuse, it will only be themselves they cut. There is only one of us.
To attack them is to enforce the Christianity (the separation of mind and spirit).
Jesus is good, we can conceive this and pry him from the book of lies he was trapped inside.
Fair enough. 
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sealorcawhale
Revolution
Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 128
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: learningtofly]
#8884913 - 09/06/08 12:19 AM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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Respect"
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Posts: 6,277
Loc: South Florida
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Re: Question about Christians here [Re: rba]
#8885020 - 09/06/08 01:00 AM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
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There is Christ and there is Christianity. Christ in Greek means Messiah in Hebrew and refers to a unique expression of God's Being to human beinghood. Personally, I prefer the abstract idea of the Logos which is rendered "word" in the Gospel of John. The metaphorical language of Father and Son, and by the 3rd century, Holy Spirit, quite frankly turns me off. A tripartite God existed in neo-Platonism before Tertullian created the doctrine from probable neo-Platonic sources and from Philo of Alexandria. Jesus would have thought trinitarian thought to be Pagan philosophy.
Most literalist Christians have little or no idea what the origins are of their own beliefs. They parrot words and attribute meanings that are concretistic and doctrinaire - agreed upon by others in their church denomination. They also believe that Jews and all other non-Christians, even Christians of different denominations will reap negative metaphysical judgements by a monsterously judgemental and capricious Deity. This is a carry over from Egyptian myth of The Judgement and either Resurrection or annihlation by the monster Ammit ('The Gobbler') who would eat the sinful heart of the dead. Medieval artists refined their versions of Hell based on scant biblical metaphors, midrash and myth (of a 3-tiered underworld-world-heaven).
There is evidence of early Christian use of Amanita muscaria from mosaics discovered in an ancient basilica. Jacob Boehme was a Christian mystic of 400 years ago who illustrated mushroomic forms on his diagram of the Trinity. Obviously, latter day Christians can and do employ the inebriation in the service of their contemplation, gnosis and faith.
I met a famous priest, Fr. John Maloney, who taught Patrictic theology and lectured widely in the 70s. He shocked little old church ladies by mentioning his acid trips. In the 60s, there were others. History continues, including Christian history. Non-trippers have NO idea what a trip is and ifone is a Christian, one's Christian trip will be deepened not damaged by entheogens. Any confusion means that their Christian trip is superficially intellectual-emotional and never was a manifestation of Spirit (Being) to begin with.
There is no discussing the historical Jesus as Albert Schweitzer pointed out at the turn of the century, and as others have discovered. There is just no physical evidence or biblical elaboration of his appearance or personality, only a highly mythologized and supernaturalized composite figure of healer, exorcist, therapist, wisdom teacher. This is not to say that Jesus is not salvific. I believe that the literary character describes The Way (to be).
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Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit
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theshiz777
Friend
Registered: 08/28/08
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Last seen: 13 days, 16 hours
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I am christian and can say this about mushrooms and other drugs.
All of these natural feel good things that GOD put on this earth is for enjoyment. He wants us to feel good, and have fun. I do think that when people become glutons over "drugs" or anything else realy.
See anything can become a problem when people over do it. I honestly believe that glutony, and over indulgence vs. moderation is that struggle of good and evil, Heaven and hell. everything can be fun and enjoyable, hence why it was put on GODS green earth, and everything can be evil. I believe that everyones struggles and triumphs in this world are for a reason, and ultimately if you love GOD you are saved.
Hey GOD put the mushrooms, the marijuana, the coca, the poppy in this world. Our free will lets us do the right thing and the wrong things with these substances. Enjoy them, but dont abuse them.
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