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 ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
 
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 2,962
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
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 You may (not) argue pro life
#8870419 - 09/03/08 07:56 AM (3 months, 1 hour ago) |
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Those who argue choice have chosen to argue (I believe).
Take a second chance against suffering.
Those who argue life have chosen not to (God says).
Take the second chance of those who suffer.
The pro choice supporter shows that they will choose in the face of God so they can better life to the world.
The pro life supporter shows that they will live the face of choice so they can show a better God to the world.
The pro choice shows us the woman should be allowed to choose, since she has the power of life.
The pro life shows you that you should be forced to hate the woman, since she has the power of life.
(But what if I am pro life and I don't believe in God!?!? I see you worship yourself.)
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Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
Stop knowing what you are and realize what you could be.
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Shad0w
In trouble again.
Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 532
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Side note.
A woman isnt the only one involved in the choice.
She doesnt just magically make babies.....
Besides which...... wasnt the "choice" made when they decided not to use a condom?
I am not nessisarily pro-life, I just pretty much hate everything that teaches people to avoid consequences.
I am pro-evolution. The dumb ones should die, Or at least be miserable until they die. 
Hmmm, maybe abortions are a good idea..... at least the dumb folks who think they shouldnt have to face their own choices in life wont have too many offspring.
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,317
Last seen: 51 minutes, 20 seconds
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: Shad0w]
#8872665 - 09/03/08 04:51 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, she didn't exactly decide not to use a condom.
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thekwazz
original flavor!
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 778
Loc: City of murder, GA
Last seen: 8 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: Oweyervishice]
#8872772 - 09/03/08 05:21 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, she didn't exactly decide not to use a condom.
My thoughts exactly. I can't see denying people choices to fix things they didn't choose in the first place. But in that light I don't think you could pick and choose who can have procedures done.
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A mystic is someone who wants to understand the universe, but is too lazy to study physics.
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 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 6,511
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: Oweyervishice]
#8872814 - 09/03/08 05:35 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, she didn't exactly decide not to use a condom.
But does this necessarily imply that she abort? After all, the developing fetus isn't to blame for the rapist's actions--can't the woman simply wait the nine months and give it up for adoption?
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we are born naked, wet, hungry, and torn from the woman we love. then things get worse.  
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,317
Last seen: 51 minutes, 20 seconds
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: deCypher]
#8872842 - 09/03/08 05:39 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Cypher said:
Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, she didn't exactly decide not to use a condom.
But does this necessarily imply that she abort? After all, the developing fetus isn't to blame for the rapist's actions--can't the woman simply wait the nine months and give it up for adoption?
The developing fetus won't necessarily have a good life if she decides to keep it.
I think if "choice" referred to the fetus, many would choose abortion if they could see the life ahead of them. 
My biggest issue with a strict pro-life stance, though, is when the pregnancy is endangering the woman's life. This applies 100-fold when considering rape.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 6,511
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: Oweyervishice]
#8872851 - 09/03/08 05:41 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
I think if "choice" referred to the fetus, many would choose abortion if they could see the life ahead of them.
LOL, wow. A pessimistic outlook much?
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we are born naked, wet, hungry, and torn from the woman we love. then things get worse.
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mofo
inquisitor
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 786
Loc: Sol 3
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: deCypher]
#8873095 - 09/03/08 06:32 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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There are millions of abortions in this country every year, and only a minuscule percentage of them have anything to do with rape, incest, concerns for the mothers safety, or any other fucked up thing like that. The vast majority of them are simply a form of birth control. Very callous behavior if you ask me. Scientifically speaking, every fetus is a genetically unique human organism who will never again have an opportunity to walk this earth.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,110
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: deCypher]
#8873167 - 09/03/08 06:52 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Cypher said:
Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
If a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, she didn't exactly decide not to use a condom.
But does this necessarily imply that she abort? After all, the developing fetus isn't to blame for the rapist's actions--can't the woman simply wait the nine months and give it up for adoption?
Sure. The next time you have to decide whether or not to carry to term the unwanted child of your rapist, adoption is one of several choices open to you. I for one would not be interested in carrying to term the child of my rapist. Pregnancy is something I look forward to, but there's no fucking way in hell I'd want to carry to term the child of my rapist and have to constantly have that on my mind while the baby was growing in my body. Although it would be no fault of the child's, it would feel like a parasite, an intruder, a constant reminder of the disgusting invasion of my body that spawned it. I want the father of my child to be someone I care about who has an interest in being involved in the kid's life, or at least someone I liked enough to fuck consensually. And lucky for me, that choice is MINE no matter what anyone else says. If abortion were illegal, I'd seek out (and probably be involved in running) an underground clinic, or opt for an herbal abortion. No matter what laws exist, the choice to have a baby or have an abortion is mine and mine alone and there is nothing in the world anyone can do to prevent me from making that choice, so long as certain meagre resouces are available (i.e. a friend to help monitor my health while I pump myself full of pennyroyal and black cohosh.)
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,110
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: mofo]
#8873207 - 09/03/08 06:59 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
mofo said:
There are millions of abortions in this country every year, and only a minuscule percentage of them have anything to do with rape, incest, concerns for the mothers safety, or any other fucked up thing like that. The vast majority of them are simply a form of birth control. Very callous behavior if you ask me. Scientifically speaking, every fetus is a genetically unique human organism who will never again have an opportunity to walk this earth.
The best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies AND seemingly "gratuitous" abortions is to educate kids about thier contraception options and make them widely available at a low cost. Free condoms at schools and clinics is a good start. My favourite clinic has baskets of free condoms in the waiting room, the washroom, and every office. I fill my pockets whenever I go there. 
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,317
Last seen: 51 minutes, 20 seconds
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8873228 - 09/03/08 07:02 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
Quote:
mofo said:
There are millions of abortions in this country every year, and only a minuscule percentage of them have anything to do with rape, incest, concerns for the mothers safety, or any other fucked up thing like that. The vast majority of them are simply a form of birth control. Very callous behavior if you ask me. Scientifically speaking, every fetus is a genetically unique human organism who will never again have an opportunity to walk this earth.
The best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies AND seemingly "gratuitous" abortions is to educate kids about thier contraception options and make them widely available at a low cost. Free condoms at schools and clinics is a good start. My favourite clinic has baskets of free condoms in the waiting room, the washroom, and every office. I fill my pockets whenever I go there.
Agreed. Abstinence education = 
Kids are gonna follow their sexual instincts whether you tell them it's naughty or not. We should prepare them to play safe.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 2,962
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: mofo]
#8873237 - 09/03/08 07:04 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
mofo said:
There are millions of abortions in this country every year, and only a minuscule percentage of them have anything to do with rape, incest, concerns for the mothers safety, or any other fucked up thing like that. The vast majority of them are simply a form of birth control. Very callous behavior if you ask me. Scientifically speaking, every fetus is a genetically unique human organism who will never again have an opportunity to walk this earth.
Be careful with your population now;
sperm and ovums too fit that 'scientific' definition.
I agree it is callous behaviour.
I would suggest the careless unprotected sex-er is behaving in a very pro-life manner.
--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
Stop knowing what you are and realize what you could be.
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,317
Last seen: 51 minutes, 20 seconds
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:
mofo said:
There are millions of abortions in this country every year, and only a minuscule percentage of them have anything to do with rape, incest, concerns for the mothers safety, or any other fucked up thing like that. The vast majority of them are simply a form of birth control. Very callous behavior if you ask me. Scientifically speaking, every fetus is a genetically unique human organism who will never again have an opportunity to walk this earth.
Be careful with your population now;
sperm and ovums too fit that 'scientific' definition.
I agree it is callous behaviour.
I would suggest the careless unprotected sex-er is behaving in a very pro-life manner.
Aye, save the sperm! Get pregnant! We can't save them all, unfortunately. 
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mofo
inquisitor
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 786
Loc: Sol 3
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Be careful with your population now;
sperm and ovums too fit that 'scientific' definition.
Actually, that's incorrect. Neither a sperm nor ovum will ever grow into a human being by themselves. A zygote on the other hand has everything it needs genetically to grow into a fully developed human being with friends and family, hopes and fears, etc.
Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
I agree it is callous behaviour.
I would suggest the careless unprotected sex-er is behaving in a very pro-life manner.
I agree totally. Procreation is the purpose of sex and the greatest expression of romantic love, whether we realize it or not. Perhaps this should be taught is schools so people won't be so "careless."
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,317
Last seen: 51 minutes, 20 seconds
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: mofo]
#8873371 - 09/03/08 07:31 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
mofo said:
Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Be careful with your population now;
sperm and ovums too fit that 'scientific' definition.
Actually, that's incorrect. Neither a sperm nor ovum will ever grow into a human being by themselves. A zygote on the other hand has everything it needs genetically to grow into a fully developed human being with friends and family, hopes and fears, etc.
Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
I agree it is callous behaviour.
I would suggest the careless unprotected sex-er is behaving in a very pro-life manner.
I agree totally. Procreation is the purpose of sex and the greatest expression of romantic love, whether we realize it or not. Perhaps this should be taught is schools so people won't be so "careless."
A zygote has the potential to grow into a person with all of those qualities, but it doesn't have them yet. Taking away the life of a zygote is very different from taking the life of a person with actual life experience and feelings.
Also, you say procreation is the purpose of sex. I would say procreation is merely a side-effect. Animals don't have sex because they know it will create babies, they do it because it feels good. This happens to work in favor of reproduction but that's evolution for ya.
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mofo
inquisitor
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 786
Loc: Sol 3
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: Oweyervishice]
#8873458 - 09/03/08 07:49 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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I didn't say thats why we do it, I said thats its purpose. Take eating as a comparison. We eat in order to nourish our bodies, replenish vitamins and nutrients, and obtain caloric energy. That is its purpose. Thats not necessarily why we do it though. If you asked people why they eat, many would say, 'because I'm hungry' or because something looked tasty. In the case of both eating and sex, I would argue that its wiser and healthier to understand the purpose of each activity and act accordingly.
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,317
Last seen: 51 minutes, 20 seconds
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: mofo]
#8873480 - 09/03/08 07:53 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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You're making an assumption that the continuation of our species is purposeful, and not just chaotic luck.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 6,511
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8873483 - 09/03/08 07:53 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
Sure. The next time you have to decide whether or not to carry to term the unwanted child of your rapist, adoption is one of several choices open to you. I for one would not be interested in carrying to term the child of my rapist. Pregnancy is something I look forward to, but there's no fucking way in hell I'd want to carry to term the child of my rapist and have to constantly have that on my mind while the baby was growing in my body. Although it would be no fault of the child's, it would feel like a parasite, an intruder, a constant reminder of the disgusting invasion of my body that spawned it. I want the father of my child to be someone I care about who has an interest in being involved in the kid's life, or at least someone I liked enough to fuck consensually. And lucky for me, that choice is MINE no matter what anyone else says. If abortion were illegal, I'd seek out (and probably be involved in running) an underground clinic, or opt for an herbal abortion. No matter what laws exist, the choice to have a baby or have an abortion is mine and mine alone and there is nothing in the world anyone can do to prevent me from making that choice, so long as certain meagre resouces are available (i.e. a friend to help monitor my health while I pump myself full of pennyroyal and black cohosh.)
Yep, the choice is yours and yours alone to make. That still doesn't mean it's a valid choice when you could do the right thing and wait for that nine months. Sure, it's a pain, but treat it as a chance to give something beautiful and right to the world as a counter to the ugly violence that spawned it.
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we are born naked, wet, hungry, and torn from the woman we love. then things get worse.
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ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 2,962
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
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Re: You may (not) argue pro life [Re: mofo]
#8873569 - 09/03/08 08:11 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
mofo said:
Actually, that's incorrect. Neither a sperm nor ovum will ever grow into a human being by themselves. A zygote on the other hand has everything it needs genetically to grow into a fully developed human being with friends and family, hopes and fears, etc.
I believe a zygote still requires a womb at this point in time. Correct me if I am wrong, I know we have excelled in genetic manipulation recently.
--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
Stop knowing what you are and realize what you could be.
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mofo
inquisitor
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 786
Loc: Sol 3
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
I believe a zygote still requires a womb at this point in time. Correct me if I am wrong, I know we have excelled in genetic manipulation recently.
Of course they do. If they didn't, there would likely be no such thing as abortion. They rely on the womb in the same way newborns rely on their mothers care and nurturing touch. Should we expect a newborn to just fend for itself? Does this dependant state make it somehow less human?
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