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 b3jamboree
yes we have no portabellas
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 231
Loc: 45th Parallel, MI
Last seen: 21 hours, 59 minutes
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 Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse
#8864665 - 09/02/08 07:50 AM (3 months, 1 day ago) |
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I am still trying to figure out how to provide adequate oxygen to my mushrooms in our greenhouse without letting too much cold winter air in through the vents.
It occurs to me that plants, of course, naturally respire oxygen and 'breathe' in CO2. However I don't think it would be very wise to have a bunch of dirt in the greenhouse as it harbors molds and other microbes that may not be good for the mushrooms, am I wrong?
What about hydroponics, or soil-less mixes for plants?
Any ideas on what plants are more efficient at exchanging CO2 for O?
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tr3eman9
That guy
Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 8
Last seen: 3 months, 23 hours
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: b3jamboree]
#8864794 - 09/02/08 09:02 AM (3 months, 23 hours ago) |
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i've heard of people planting grass seed into cakes and allowing some grass to grow out.
i don't know if CO2 exchange was the reason though.
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You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...
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 Fungalution
Fellow Shroomer
Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 97
Loc: Earth... I think?
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: tr3eman9]
#8864924 - 09/02/08 09:35 AM (3 months, 23 hours ago) |
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The hydro idea is a good one. I think the leaf or foliage is the part of the plant that takes care of gas exchange as that is were photosynthesis occurs. So I would assume a plant with large leaves would do a lot of gas exchange compared to a plant with smaller leaves or say a cactus. I may be way off here though. Tomatoes use a lot of water and have a lot of foliage and like a lot of light. There for I would assume they do a lot of photosynthesis and there for would be "eating" a lot of CO2. You could check the Growery and see how much CO2 pot plants eat as I think they have that down to a science over there. If you can't or don't want to grow pot, I believe tomato plants have similar metabolisms and are very easy to grow and are a great candidate for hydroponics. With that said I think it would be easier to just get a small heater and heat the cold outside air coming in your greenhouse. It would probably cost the same in the long run.
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Paresthesia
Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 447
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 29 minutes, 10 seconds
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: Fungalution]
#8865211 - 09/02/08 10:51 AM (3 months, 21 hours ago) |
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I've read that in some places people will suspend reishi mushroom blocks between rows of sugar cane. Sugar cane is a C4 plant, which basically means it's very efficient at taking in carbon from the air, much more so than other crops. The mushrooms benefit from the lower CO2 levels and added oxygen output from the sugar cane.
Corn is also a C4 plant, which may explain the traditional method of growing it with king stropharia mushrooms.
I realize people don't grow corn or sugar cane in greenhouses, of course, but suspending blocks of wood loving mushrooms in the greenhouse might work out pretty well.
Dutch immigrants to the US brought their own intercropping system with them, too. They would grow spinach in raised beds on shelves, and use the space below the shelves for growing button mushrooms where the light requirements are greatly reduced. There's a great market for fresh greens during winter months so I could see this system as having greenhouse potential.
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"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."
- T. S. Eliot
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b3jamboree
yes we have no portabellas
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 231
Loc: 45th Parallel, MI
Last seen: 21 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: Paresthesia]
#8868955 - 09/02/08 09:57 PM (3 months, 10 hours ago) |
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Thank you very much for the advice and opinions. I have a chef friend who wants me to grow greens for his restaurant along with the mushrooms. I think you are right about more surface are on the leaves the more CO2 is eaten up. I will have to research this further.
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Hotnuts
old hand
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 2,755
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: b3jamboree]
#8870726 - 09/03/08 09:43 AM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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I wouldn't worry with bacteria nearly as much as molds blooming in the soil. Pasteurize the soil for a couple of hours prior to planting anything it. If the plants are pre-planted, use copper in the water according to directions to keep the molds at bay.
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Hotnuts
old hand
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 2,755
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: Hotnuts]
#8871562 - 09/03/08 12:53 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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Keep your eyes peeled for mites too.
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MycoAu
Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 650
Last seen: 13 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: Hotnuts]
#8872383 - 09/03/08 03:47 PM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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If you can completely segregate one side of the greenhouse from the other, you can pump air from one side the other (both directions in a circular manner) through HEPA filters to prevent cross-contamination while taking full advantage of the gas exchange system.
Obviously, this may be well outside of your financial means in a practically-minded manner, but it's an idea none-the-less.
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makaveli8x8
Stranger
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 6,761
Last seen: 2 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: MycoAu]
#8875245 - 09/04/08 02:35 AM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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just use fresh high quality plant soil and start all your plants indoors. then just put plant/block/plant/block...ect.
don't worry about any fancy setups it would all be a waste of time. the more surface area you have, the more places for contams to find a home. and you can't really clean dirt it won't really matter anyway. the bottom line is as long as you monitor your water content in the soil you should be ok. you have to water when the leafs start to go limp, it happens alot slower because of all the humidity.
the key to plants in the chamber is consistant cleaning, and consistant humidity...if you go 2 high your prob gunna have problems. you want just enough humidity to get the job done. and realize the plants are going to alter your readings alot, well thats what i think anyway
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  We were sent to hell for eternity  Ø h®
We play on earth to pass the time 
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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desertturtle
Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 168
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: makaveli8x8]
#8875341 - 09/04/08 03:59 AM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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MycoAu
Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 650
Last seen: 13 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: desertturtle]
#8876793 - 09/04/08 12:28 PM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
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Turtle, have you done any other pairing of fungi with plants? Pics?
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b3jamboree
yes we have no portabellas
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 231
Loc: 45th Parallel, MI
Last seen: 21 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: MycoAu]
#8876817 - 09/04/08 12:32 PM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
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I really did want to section off a few rooms in the greehouse, but it would be tremendously expensive. We would need to tailor make walls to fit snug to the walls and roof, get vents and filters for each wall and seal everything up really well so there would be no mold issues.
And even if we did all that I'm still not sure how well the air flow would work. The thing is designed with the vents and fans for air to flow right through from the intake to the outside vent...
I think I will try to get some leafy greens in there with pasteurized soil.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 18,223
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 12 hours, 50 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: b3jamboree]
#8877540 - 09/04/08 02:58 PM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
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In my experience, plants are going to cause more problems than they solve unless you grow mushrooms in the surface soil of an existing plant greenhouse. I doubt you can maintain much health in mushrooms crops in trays if they're around plants. Mushrooms require above 90% humidity, and that's way too high for most plants, so they'll soon be infected with fungus such as powdery mildew, which will then spread to your substrates. Fungus gnats and cobweb mold will probably be the biggest headaches.
How about building a well insulated greenhouse? It only needs windows on the south side, and you could use two sheets of greenhouse fiberglass, separated by an air space for insulation, or even thermal windows. The rest of the bulding can be well insulated. You could put some large rocks painted black, or some black metal drums full of water to act as thermal storage. A home made solar panel can be used to heat water, which you would store inside the greenhouse as well to give off heat at night. Remember, you only need to keep it above about 40F at the coldest part of the night.
Another option if your home is near the greenhouse is to duct heat from the g/h during the day to warm the house, and then reverse the process at night.
We purchased a cabin in the mountains this spring, so one of my projects for next year is to dig an underground 'cave' for mushroom growing. Also, my property borders a national forest, and about a 1 mile hike from my backyard is a large 'undiscovered' cave that I could hike into to use, but of course, no electricity or running water available. It stays about 55F to 60F year around. If you have a place to bury a shipping container, they're free for the taking near any port. They'd rather give them away than ship back to china empty.(another reason to boycott walmart by the way)
RR
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www.mushroomvideos.com
"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member".
Mark Twain, Woody Allen, Groucho Marx, and anyone else who wishes to claim credit for the quote.
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SuchSmartMonkeys
mycologicallydrivenindividual
Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 537
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8877566 - 09/04/08 03:05 PM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
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i go with RRs answer. a lot more detailed than what i was planning on saying, but yeah, from experience, i can say that fugal gnats WILL be a problem...
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MycoAu
Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 650
Last seen: 13 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: SuchSmartMonkeys]
#8877673 - 09/04/08 03:26 PM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
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RR, what was your "40*F" figure based on? Is that good for a broad range of tropical plants also (a general rule for g/h temps) ? I was thinking that some plants, such as bananas, would die if repeatedly exposed to those temperatures.
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b3jamboree
yes we have no portabellas
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 231
Loc: 45th Parallel, MI
Last seen: 21 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: MycoAu]
#8879484 - 09/04/08 09:09 PM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
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We actually do have a special solar greenhouse with a double cover, with air blowing in between.
We are planning to build a 2 ft wide by 2 foot deep trough running along three sides. We are going to run heating pipe through it so it will provide ambient heat and humidity. I'm guessing we'll only have to run the heat at night, just let the sun heat it during the day.
It remains to be seen how warm it will stay, but I'm really afraid of venting too much in the winter; we get temps well below zero, especially at night when there is no sun.
According to Stamets oysters need 4-6 air exchanges per hour, depending how densely packed they are in the space. They will be pretty densely packed, and no matter how warm the greenhouse is it will have to replace all that heat 4-6 times per hour.
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mycomon
Stranger
Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 6
Last seen: 2 months, 18 days
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: b3jamboree]
#8891034 - 09/07/08 01:48 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
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what about pumping the co2 rich air into a tank of algae?
they eat co2 and belch o2
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rugergirl79
lεṡвïαṉ εχτɾøḋïṉ^
Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 1,772
Loc: cardboard box
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: mycomon]
#8891050 - 09/07/08 01:54 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
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here are some of my contaimed cakes in with some tomato plants on my back patio....
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"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."
Hunter S. Thompson
Worked for these guys as well!
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 18,223
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 12 hours, 50 minutes
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: rugergirl79]
#8891243 - 09/07/08 02:46 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
and no matter how warm the greenhouse is it will have to replace all that heat 4-6 times per hour.
Not quite. I wouldn't pay any attention to that figure if it's a large greenhouse and small mushroom crop. You won't have to exchange the whole greenhouse that much. In fact, with straw logs hanging, or on shelves, you probably won't have to provide much more intake air than what naturally leaks in through the door. Have a fan running to circulate the air inside. You'll know if the CO2 level is too high because your oysters will have fat stems and tiny caps.
RR
--------------------
www.mushroomvideos.com
"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member".
Mark Twain, Woody Allen, Groucho Marx, and anyone else who wishes to claim credit for the quote.
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jccc
just aotherhuman
Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 1,105
Last seen: 1 day, 22 hours
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Re: Plants and mushrooms in the same greenhouse [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8892828 - 09/07/08 07:51 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
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b3jamboree...would you mind if you posted pictures of your set-up sometime this winter? Id love to see some oyster's fruiting with 2ft snow outside.
If not its no big deal.
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