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 FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 6,262
Loc: Amsterdam
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 Microscopes (For Spore Viewing)
#8844876 - 08/28/08 10:32 PM (3 months, 5 days ago) |
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I'm looking for a decent microscope specifically for viewing spores and more importantly for identifying monokaryotic and dikaryotic cultures (clamp connections) on petri dishes. I have done some searching and have seen RR mention that a 400x light microscope is good for this purpose. My dilema is that I have looked on ebay and other online vendors and see some 400x models selling for as little as $20 and as high as $1000.
What particular features should I be looking for that would best fit my needs and which features would justify paying a higher price for one scope over another? If anyone has a particular recommendation based on personal experience, I would really appreciate any input. I don't need a top-of-the-line scope, just one that will do what I need it to.
I know this may not be an "advanced" question, but I'm confident that more of the members that actually use microscopes lurk here. Thanks for any help.
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 BlimeyGrimey
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Registered: 08/24/05
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: FooMan]
#8845651 - 08/29/08 01:10 AM (3 months, 5 days ago) |
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Sorry, I can't help you but I've been wondering the same thing.
I'll add to your question(s).
Would a 40x/100x/400x microscope for $100-150 be good enough for spore identification and looking at things such as basidia and clamp connections?
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
#8846595 - 08/29/08 10:11 AM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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I have three different microscopes that I bought over the years that are total shit. They ranged from $400 to $600 and the objectives are too small to let enough light in for a decent view. What's more important than the 400X value is the diameter of the objectives. Cheap made in china microscopes have very small objectives made of plastic.
If you want to observe clamp connections, you won't be able to see them on a petri dish with a light microscope. You'll have to swipe some mycelium off the dish and put it on a slide for viewing. A light microscope shines a light from the bottom, and you 'see' the light that penetrates your specimen and shines through it to the objective above. For this, you need to make a microscope slide. The light can't shine through agar and mycelium very well.
For a lab microscope, the minimum I'd recommend is the M2 LabScope and I'd recommend the trinocular model so you can put a camera on it whenever you can afford one.
For the ID of contaminants on petri dishes, or to view spores on a print, you'll want a stereo zoom microscope such as the Z2 inspector that was featured in the syringe making and sporeprinting chapter on my DVD. A zoom microscope shines light from above where the lens is, so you see the reflected light that bounces back. These are the same microscopes you'd use to look at jewelry or insects, etc. Good luck.
RR
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quickpick
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8846950 - 08/29/08 11:43 AM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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Hey guys,
Yup, as RR said, objectives are very important in the usefulness of the tool.
A good buddy of mine named Tim Wilson is a scientist who specializes in microbes and microscopy has written a nice "Microscope Advisory" for those interested in purchasing a scope. There are many variables to consider like phase-contrast (great to have), infinity-corrected lenses, etc, etc.
Here is his pdf:
Quote:
Microscopes;
Here is a PDF copy of my Microscope advisory. It may help you with making a decision concerning a microscope purchase
> http://microbeorganics.com/microscopeadvisory.pdf
ANd here is Tim's excellent site, TONS of great info and first-hand science of microbes and info...worth a read or two or three 
http://microbeorganics.com/
The really nice phase-contrast, infinity corrected lens type of microscopes are $2000-6000 new. They are reach 6000 when you get a video camera and digital camera too. But a nice and very useful scope, especially for only viewing spores could be had for a few hundred bucks.
Feel free to email Tim and ask him for advise, he's a very nice guy. He's putting together a how-to for building your own scope, or refurbishing one, which will only cost around 200-300.
HTH
Edited by quickpick (08/29/08 11:44 AM)
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quickpick
Stranger
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: quickpick]
#8847002 - 08/29/08 11:51 AM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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oh,
and for a real nice, yet affordable ($3,350) 'biological' lab scope I love the Meiji 5310H trino with phase contrast and halogen. And all the Meiji use infinity corrected optical lenses.
http://www.milescoscientific.com/biological_MT5000_series_Meiji.html
A few other notes:
-If you get choice betten LED and halogen light source get halogen.
-If you get halogen try to get over 20watt.
-Order a video camera attachment when you get order your scope, like RR says, when you can afford a nice video camera (make sure it can do stills) you'll be ready with the attachment for you microscope.
RR, by 'light' are you referring to Brightfield?
Edited by quickpick (08/29/08 12:08 PM)
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 6,262
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: quickpick]
#8847518 - 08/29/08 01:40 PM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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Thanks for the links, but I would be hard pressed to drop $500 on a microscope right now, let alone a $3,000+. I wouldn't mind dropping that kind of cash if this was my career, but this is just a hobby for me.
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quickpick
Stranger
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: FooMan]
#8847999 - 08/29/08 03:07 PM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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Hey FM,
Yea, I know you only want to spend a few hundred. I was just giving an example of the higher end.
The advisory PDF is what you should read. It will provide you with the knowledge to understand what you want and why you want it. It covers all aspects of a microscope and helps you choose what you need...it's a really good read and IMO you should read it if you want to learn about microscopes, it will answer a lot of your questions. In the PDF are links to used and inexpensive, yet good scopes.
And the points I mentioned are valid for you too, that is using a halogen and not a LED, etc.
You can get a nice scope for like 200-500, well, at least a nice starter lab microscope which IMVHO you will love! It's really fun.
I'd suggest you email Tim and tell him what your doing and what you want to do with it and how much you can spend (don't worry, he's 'cool'  ). Then he'll offer his opinion which I've learned from very often, he's like a walking microscope.
P.S. Check you PM box.
Later
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FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 6,262
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: quickpick]
#8848277 - 08/29/08 04:25 PM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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Thanks for the info! Have 5 
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asci
HONGO
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: FooMan]
#8848397 - 08/29/08 04:55 PM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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check out ebay, i often see high quality bench scopes for very little money. also, for use with a camera a trinoc scope is not needed. there are adapters that fit into the oculars, which makes micro photography much simpler; in my opinion
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quickpick
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: asci]
#8848440 - 08/29/08 05:07 PM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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Hey asci,
But it's nice to have the trinoc and use a camera adapter, or better yet a video camera adapter and use a video camera which does stills, though more expensive than just a 3.2 pixel digital camera, which is expensive in it's own right.
have a good one
Edited by quickpick (08/29/08 05:10 PM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: quickpick]
#8848522 - 08/29/08 05:28 PM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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I have several videos of spores germinating, showing the action in the spore just before the hyphae becomes visible. I also have some time lapse video of clamp connections forming, so perhaps this winter when I finally get snowed in up here, I'll have enough time to encode them into flash video, and get them up on my website. Until then, we're busy getting our cabin ready for winter.
I wouldn't be without my trinocular port. Be careful though, because some of the cheaper trinocs disconnect one of the eyepieces when you make the camera port active. Be sure to read the fine print on the scope before you purchase it.
I'd love a new scope with all the bells and whistles, but my airplane is due an annual inspection, and this year it's going to cost about ten grand, so extra purchases are out of the question. I like to take aerial photography as much as micrographs. The picture in Mycelium Running that shows the worlds largest known living organism, the thousand+ acre mycelium patch in Eastern Oregon, was shot from the back seat of my plane by Paul.
RR
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www.mushroomvideos.com
"I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member".
Mark Twain, Woody Allen, Groucho Marx, and anyone else who wishes to claim credit for the quote.
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lipa
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8848975 - 08/29/08 07:06 PM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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Thats cool! A pilot.
What kind of video hardware do you use with your scope?
Sooo have you dropped any aerial spore bombs off of your airplane yet?
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asci
HONGO
Registered: 03/22/06
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Loc: oregon
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: lipa]
#8849270 - 08/29/08 07:59 PM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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that is true trinoc's are handy at times, we use them quite often at the lab's with a video port. but those scopes are thousands of dollars at the university and are they great!!
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Juke Adro
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Re: Microscopes (For Spore Viewing) [Re: lipa]
#8851166 - 08/30/08 05:05 AM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
lipa said:
Sooo have you dropped any aerial spore bombs off of your airplane yet?
 I was actually speaking to someone here about that in regards to Reishi, I was told not to as it's way too aggressive for Australia and might cause some problems
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