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The Cypher said:
You sound like you have some knowledge in magick.  I've been intrigued by this lately, but my best guess is still that the entities that you summon during invocation or evocation are merely that, byproducts of your own subconscious mind.  I can see how sigils and gnosis might alter your own subjective reality, and perhaps program your subconscious to enable you to perform the actions necessary to get what you requested in the sigil, but I'd still like to see any solid evidence of magick changing anybody else's reality.

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Well, I'm just getting into it but I will answer as best I can. I think it is pretty commonly accepted that, say all the demons of the Goetia are aspects of the human psyche, but it remains one of best paths to understand those aspects and to relate to them.

I think it's partially true that whatever magick you put forth will place you in line with getting it, but much of it revolves around placing the rest of the world in line with what you want. One of the most accepted definitions of magick, by Aleister Crowley is this: Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will. This is pretty broad, and rightly so. Many get hung up on getting wacked out and seeing visions to bring your enemies severed head to your door step, when in reality much magick involves advancing one's self. To see an example of this and more, I highly recommend "Initiation Into Hermetics," By Franz Bardon. Any associations aside, this book could help many, many people.

And as far as proof, or seeing alterations in someone else's reality, well I'm not sure that's going to happen any time soon. Most often magick appears as coincidences or strange occurances. Anyway, the best way is to just give it a shot. You'll more often than not see alterations in your reality than other's from 3rd person pov.

I wish I could explain the process better but I'm not too deep into it, so I'll leave it at that.

Now back on track...epiphanies are still concrete. If Crick & Watson had smoked DMT and the elves told them that DNA was shaped like a double helix - great! now we're getting somewhere. But the fact is, that epiphany came from a sober mind (I think...though I remember reading something about Crick & LSD, but I'm not sure if that played a part in the actual discovery).

And really, whether DMT elves are aspects of ourselves or citizens of Omikron Perseii 8, if someone were to bring down some solid info that would be pretty un-fucking-believable.

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fazdazzle said: I think it is pretty commonly accepted that, say all the demons of the Goetia are aspects of the human psyche

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Not according to most of the posters on occultforums.com.   My impression, at least, is that the majority of them have stated the experience was of a fundamental reality apart from their mind.  (Of course, schizophrenics also claim this about their voices.)  Out of curiosity, what online forums would you recommend for getting into this stuff?

And yeah, supposedly Crick came up with the idea for the helix during a DNA trip, but this is a far thing from psychedelic entities telling you that DNA is in the shape of a helix.  LSD boosts creativity, but we have yet to see any solid outside information imparted.

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The Cypher said:
Which epiphany are you referring to?  Sure, you might get to know "God" through the psychedelic experience, but I'll challenge you to learn any new factual information by simply ingesting a chemical.

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