Hi,

I am new here and I haven't grown p.cubes in years.  My F/C is going to be a marta tec via a walk in closet, not a rack.  I am inoculating to grain then spawning into horse poo/straw mix then casing in F/C.  Anyway, I read Paul Stamets book "The Mushroom Cultivator" and I found some neat info.  I searched on shoomery but there is very little discussion about UVa, etc.

I would  appreciate your input, thanks!


Light and wavelength for inoculating, incubating, casing, pining and fruiting:

• One of the most important factors in yield is a strong and full primordial formation period and pinhead set[1]
  
  
  
• Blue and UVa wavelengths offer the most abundant pinhead set with peaks at the nanometers of 370, 440 and 460[2].
  
  
  
• UVb (290–320 nm) light is much less powerful when the source (bulb) is greater than 12" form the destination (cropping surface).  UVa (315-400 nm) light is stronger at greater distances.  For a source of UVa I will use "ZooMed" "Reptisun 5.0 UVb"[3].
  
  
  
• The best source of light for pining and fruiting is natural wavelengths from fluorescent lights.  But the photo-requirements of p.cube calls for "at least 140 microwatts per 10 nanometer per lumen of blue spectra (440-495 nm)"[4], and neither cool-white or warm-white offer that blue light[4].  Commercial light bulbs from "Duro-Test Lighting, Inc"[5] such as "Vita Lite" and "Daylight 65" offer the required blue spectra for p.cubes[4].
  
  
  
• Fluorescent should be kept at least 18" from the cropping surface[4]
  
  
  
• Red and green light with nanometer greater than 510 are ineffective (eg. invisible) to p.cube growth[2] and can be used when working with inoculation, incubation, spawn, bulk substrate, casing layers, patch casing, etc.  Im pretty sure this is supposed to increase speed and aggressiveness of the inoculation, colonization of substrates, casing, etc...
  

So, heres what I think I will do:

1. I am going to setup a string of red Xmas lights in the sterile room and f/c, a string is cheap at Wallyworld or online.  The red light is to be used in the sterile room for inocs and in the f/c for incubation, casing, mixing with bulk substrate, etc.  Ill use the red Xmas lights in the f/c until casing is colonized and I want to start pining.  I'll use the red light all the time in the sterile room.
   
   
   
2. When I put the cased bulk substrate into the f/c I'll tightly cover them with translucent plastic wrap (for 1-3 days) to increase the Co2 level and decrease the FAE which helps even and strong casing colonization[6].  (Is tightly covering the freshly cased containers a good idea?)
   
   
   
3. At this point I'll employ patch casing and re-cover the first, quickest and most aggressive mycelim.  Generally there might be mycelim in the corners and any thin areas of caseing.
   
   
   
4. Once the casing is colonized to the point of "firm establishment"[6], not overlay, I'll remove the plastic wrap and I will lightly spray the casing if it needs to be moistened.  (I need to find pics and an explanation of what "firm establishment" means...)
   
   
   
5. To initiate pining I think I will use two, 24 inch fluorescent lights.  Each fluoro will have one "Vita Lite" and one "Raptisun" bulb. 
   
   
   
6. I will keep the bulbs 15-18" away, the closer distance compensating for loss of light via plastic barrier.  Greater than 12-14" should prevent damage to p.cubes from UVb.
   
   
   
7. When the pinheads start showing I'll pull the fastest ones to encourage a more robust, full and heavy 1st flush[7].
   
   
   
8. I will continue using the 1:1 mix of Vita Lite bulb to Reptisun bulb through the harvest at 12 hours on and 12 hours off.
   

[1] see "The relationship between primordia formation and yeild" in "The Mushroom Cultivator" p.146



[2] see "The influence of light on pinhead initiation" in "The Mushroom Cultivator" p.147



[3] ZooMed "Reptisun 5.0 UVb"
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752656&keepsr=0#prodTab1

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ReptiSun 5.0 bulbs offer the UVB and UVA rays that are necessary for the good health of your reptile or amphibian. They provide the exact band of rays within the UVB spectrum for maximum Vitamin D3 synthesis and calcium absorption. ReptiSun 5.0 UVB Bulbs supply an amazing 5.0% UVB and up to 30% UVA; outputs active UVB up to 12" from the bulb's surface. The bulb's UVA/UVB wavelength remains effective for 1 to 1½ years. (Replace bulbs yearly).

Designed for use with all lizards other than iguanas (diurnal and nocturnal), turtles and tortoises, and some species of snakes. Safe and beneficial for use with all types of reptiles, snakes, turtles, tortoises and amphibians regardless of their UV requirements.

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Experience has taught us that the light best suited for primordia formation and the development of fruitbodies is bright light with a color temperature of 5,000 Kelvin to 7,000 Kelvin. Fortunately, this type of light is easily obtainable at your local home improvement center in the form of fluorescent fixtures

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Flourescent light fixtures are the most practical and give the broadest coverage. These fixtures should be evenly spaced and mounted vertically on the side walls of the room or horizontally on the ceiling above The center isle. An alternative is to mount the lights on the underside of each tier of shelf or tray, at least 18 inches above the cropping surface. To eliminate the heat and consequent drying action caused by the fixture ballasts. These can be removed and placed outside the room.

The best type of light tube is one which most closely resembles natural outdoor light: i.e. one that has at least 140 microwatts per 10 nanometer per lumen of blue spectra (440-495 nm). In contrast, warm-white fluorescent light has only 40-50 microwatts/nm/lum. and cool-white has 100-110 microwatts/nm/lum. Commercial lights meeting the photo-requirements of species mentioned in this book are the "Daylite 65" kind manufactured by the Durotest Corporation and having a "color Temperature" of 6500 ° K and the 'Vita-Lite" fluorescent at 5500 ° K. These color temperatures provide The proper amount of blue light for promoting primordia formation in Pleurotus ostreatus, Psilocybe cubensis and in other photosensitive species.

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A thorough investigation on the photosensitivity of Psilocybe cubensis can be found in a master's thesis by E.R. Badham (1979). His work reinforces the conclusions of other researchers working with the Basidiomycetes: more pinheads are initiated upon exposure to blue and ultra-violet light with distinct peaks at 370, 440 and 460 nanometers. Badham showed that light stimulation at these wavelengths for as little as half a millisecond per day caused primordia to form. In contrast, red, infra-red and green light having wavelengths greater than 510 nanometers were ineffective.

With this knowledge, the cultivator of photosensitive species can develop initiation strategies incorporating the influence of light. Ideally a fully colonized substrate should be incubated in total darkness and exposed to light only after the mycelium first shows through the casing layer. If the cultivator wants to check the culture without the chance of premature pinning, red light is recommended (The proper location and type of light is discussed in more detail in Chapter IV).

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But, back to my post :

• what do you think about the info? 
  
  
  
• And about my plan to implement the info?
  
  
  
• How about the info about using >510nm in all but pining and fruiting?  Thoughts?
  
  
  
• Is it wise to tightly cover the cased bulk substrate with clear plastic wrap and put it inside the f/c for 1-3 days until I can start patch casing?  I do this to increase Co2 and decrease FAE which encourages strong and even mycelium through the casing layer.
  
  
  
• Do you have any links to studies, papers, etc regarding wavelenght, intensity, etc of p.cubes or other mushies (esp psychedelic)?
  

Thanks!

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#


# Is it wise to tightly cover the cased bulk substrate with clear plastic wrap and put it inside the f/c for 1-3 days until I can start patch casing?  I do this to increase Co2 and decrease FAE which encourages strong and even mycelium through the casing layer.

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whatever you are reading is making you think too hard.. the following link will tell you everything you need to know to get the most out of your casing..

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3290155/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1/nt/3

read that.. read the tek in my signature.. read read read read teks and posts... you are trying to understand the advanced shit, without even knowing how to grow from a PF tek..

just do some more reading.. there is also a search button too...

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... you are trying to understand the advanced shit, without even knowing how to grow from a PF tek..

just do some more reading.. there is also a search button too...

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I would say this is a case of you describing your own shortcomings regarding light and nanometers....I seem to have a solid grasp on matters...and I do understand much more then PF tek

Thanks

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I didnt need to waste my typing on you anyway.. haha..

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Why are you annoyed at this thread?  I  thought ppl would be glad to have this discussion of advanced topics, guess not.  So would you give Paul Stamets a hard time if he posted this info here instead of writing it in his book?

Anyway, no hard feeling on my part!

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quickpick said:
cool, 

I've read a lot of your posts when your helping others, I know it can prolly get frustrating at times.  Thanks man

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DJYoshaBYD said:
lol.. and i used to have that book.. bastard cousin stole it..

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If you talking about the Paul Stamets books "The Mushroom Cultivator" and "Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World" check you PM's in about an hour

HTH

Hey all,

I have done a good bit of research and I've found a lot of useful and interesting info regarding the action spectra of many basidiomycete mushrooms (like p.cube).  I believe this info is useful for many reasons, least of which is to know we are providing the optimal conditions which correlates into higher yield, better flushes, higher potency, less stress (from missing wavelengths), etc.

For information and research I've put together on the effect of light upon incubating p.cube, on how light may promote early and unwanted pins please see this thread:
Prevent unwanted pining in jars, bags and containers...

I want to list a couple of terms that are bit confusing but often used  in the research and studies I've read, and I often reference: (please correct me if I am wrong, thanks )

• basidiomycete = known as "higher fungi", of which psilocybe cubensis is a part
  
  
• basidiocarp = mushroom, the term is used in lue of a statement like "strain X" of Psilocybe cubensis
  
  
• basidiocarp  initiation = initiation of pinhead set
  
  
• initals = pinhead set, when used in a statement like "the initials of Psilocybe cubensis"
  
  
• primordial = pinhead, often used in a statement like "fruit-body primordial"
  
  
• fruit-body = mushroom stalk and cap after pinhead stage
  
  
• pileus = mushroom cap
  
  
• stripe= mushroom stalk
  
  
• UVa wavelength range = 315-400 nm
  
  
• violet wavelength range = 380-450 nm
  
  
• blue wavelength range = 450-495 nm

...An important point is nearly every single study I have read refers to the UVa range as 'UV'.  Also, there is no differentiation made between blue and violet wavelengths, they are collective referred to as 'blue'.  In this post I refer to UVa as 'UVa' and I refer to the blue and violet ranges as 'blue' because it makes things less confusing...



It is easy and inexpensive to provide light (photons) within the mushrooms action spectra (utilized wavelength range).  It requires easy to find and inexpensive, yet specialized fluorescent bulbs which will work in ordinary fluorescent fixtures (ballasts).  Sadly, most 'normal' fluorescent bulbs do not offer the correct wavelengths (action spectra), nor the correct "irradiance" (amount of photons) within the action spectra.

It has been pointed out that light is not a very important factor but I respectfully disagree.  Depending upon the topic, light can be as important as other environmental factors, especially in terms of pinhead set initiation and fruit-body development and maturation (ala "circadian rhythm", the light/dark cycle) 

As far as I understand:  Once the mycelium has covered the substrate surface (eg. end of vegetative phase) the two initiators of pinhead set are: (a) low light (in UVa and blue spectrum) at about 10C to about 25C and (b) high heat (when pining in total darkness) over 25C[1][2].  But, p.cube then requires consistent light and dark cycles for normal development and maturation.  From that point the light/dark cycle is important  as shown by "light-break" which can for example stall or stop mycelium growth and basidiocarp development, maturation and sporulation, etc. 

My point is: Light is a relatively important factor in basidiomycete mushroom life cycles, and if light itself is important then I assume the wavelength (nanometers) and irradiance (amount of photons)of that light is important too, mostly because that is what the mushrooms are actually utilizing, not kelvins.  And we know by scientific study the action spectra of many basidiomycetes like p.cube basidiocarps are similar to the light requirements of other basidiomycete mushrooms such as "Coprinus congregatus", "Schizophyllum commune", etc.

Note:
While looking for scientific research on p.cubes I can up pretty empty, there are some promising Japanese and French papers but I don't read either language.  So I wanted to find a well studied basidiomycete mushroom which I can use in lue of p.cubes, and low and behold Edmond Badham provided the info...



"Tropisms in the Mushroom Psilocybe cubensis"
by Edmond R. Badham, 1982:

Full PDF is attached to this post...

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At least four different responses to light have been discried for mushrooms (Eger-Hummel, 1980).  Psilocybe cubensis is similar to Coprinus congregatus BUll. ex Fr. in this respect.

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The action spectra of p.cube for pinhead set initiation and for fruit-body development is considered to be similar to that of Coprinus congregatus and Schizophyllum commune.  Also not all wavelengths within the action spectra are weighted equally, that is, the "quantum effectiveness" of photons within UVa (340-370 nm) have about 4-7 times more of an effect than a photons in blue (425-445 nm)[3][4][5].  What this means is we could use less UVa ("ReptiSun" bulb) and more blue ("Vita Lite" bulb).

The action spectra for p.cube basidiocarps is pretty much the same for both main stages of maturation: pinhead set initiation and fruit-body development.  Both of which are about 320-500 nm, with more weight placed upon UVa for pinhead set initiation and more weight placed upon blue for fruit-body development.

But as has been mentioned, regular hardware store fluorescent bulbs usually do not offer the correct UVa and blue action spectra, nor irradiance... 

However, as everyone knows, you can grow great mushrooms with 'regular' fluorescent bulbs but IMVHO it's not optimal and with a little monetary input the light source could be made optimal...


"The Effect of Light upon Basidiocarp Initiation in Psilocybe cubensis"
by E.R. Badham, 1980:

Full PDF is attached to this post...

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Discussion

This study provides another addition to the growing list of Basidiomycetes that require light for initiation or development.  The low level of light necessary for initiation of basidiocarps in Psilocybr cubensis is in agreement with the requirements of other Basidiomycetes tha have been studied and emphasizes the need for prudence in suggesting that certain mushrooms do not require light for fruitbody initiation(Heim and Il'asson, 1958).  Spectral-sensitivity studies  show that at least two areas of the spectrum stimulate fruitbody initiation, the blue and the UV.  This is characteristic for many  photoresponses of fungi (Tan. 1978).  Both action spectra determined for fruitbody initiation by Kitamoto et al.(1972) and Perkins and Gordon (1969) show relatively strong activity at 370 nm.  Similarly strong activity at 440 and 380 nm (Kitamoto, 1972) and 420 and 480 nm  (Perkins and Gordon, 1969) are in agreement with the present study.  However, the peaks at 400 and 520 nm and the lack of activity at 460 nm  (Kitamoto, 1972) are very unlike the results obtained in this study.

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ABSTRACT

An action spectrum for fruit body formation was determined in the range 280–723 nm for a dikaryon of Schizophyllum commune Fr. Action maxima occurred at 280 and 340–360 nm (main peak), and there were minor peaks at 437 and 467 nm. The quantum effectiveness at 360 nm was ca seven-fold compared to that of 437 nm light. Wavelengths longer than 500 nm were ineffective. Light also induced formation of brown pigment in the area producing fruit bodies. Wavelengths ranging from 260 to 300 nm injured aerial hyphae at the border of the colony. The possibility that a flavin or a pteridine may be the photoreceptor is discussed.

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9.6.5.2 Photoreception in basidiomycetes

Light not only induces fruiting and promotes achievement of morphogenesis, including sporogenesis and sporulation of sporophores of Coprinus congregatus, but also can inhibit development of primordia and progression of meiosis, when provided at an excessive level at teh so-called 'stage of sensitivity to darkness' (Section 9.6.3.2.1).  The action spectra for the initiation phase of this species showed peaks of effectiveness at 260, 280, 370 and 440 nm.  However, the spectral sensitivity for common photoreceptor during each successive morphogenetical phase (Fig. 11).  A similar action spectrum was established for the fruit-body formation of another basidiomycete Schizophyllum commune (Yli-Mattila 1985), with a specific 340-360 nm peak higher than the peaks in the B region.  Over the last 20 years, basically analogous action spectra have been described for several other basidiomycetes, with peaks in both UV-A, 320-440 nm, and B, 400-520 nm [e.g. Favolus arcularius, Kitamoto et al. (1971); Psilocybe cubensis, Badham (1980_; Pleurotus ostreatus, Richartz and Mac Lellan (1987)].  Furthermore, fairly precise data indicate that carpophore initiation and development in basidiomycetes can also be eventually inhibited by 'excessive' B/UV-A (see for review Durhand 1985) <Note: By using the term 'excessive' they are referring to light which is too intense (irradiance), lower levels of light are preferred.>

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In the species of the basidiomycete Coprinus, sequential light exposures are responsible for initiating and programming fruit body morphogenesis.  In C. congregatus (Macachere, 1971, 1985, Durand, 1983), C. domesticus (Chapman and Fergus, 1973) and C. cinereus (Morimoto and Oda, 1973; Lu, 1974), light stimuli are required at two stages during mushroom fruit body production.  The initiation of primordium formation has a requirement for brief exposure to low intensity light, and  further development of the fruit body, particularly differentiation of the cap, depends on additional periods of illumination.  Again, blue (400-520 nm) to near-ultraviolet (320-400 nm) light is the most effective (Madelin, 1956b; Tsusue, 1969; Lu, 1974; Manachere and Bastouill-Descolonges, 1983) in Coprinus spp. and in Schizophyllum commune (Perkins, 1969; Perkins and Gordon, 1969).

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Spectral sensitivity for stimulatory and inhibitory effects of light on fruit-body formation in Coprinus congregatus was determined between 250 and 730 nm using the Okazaki Large Spectrograph. Eight-day-old dark grown cultures were exposed to varying amounts of monochromatic photon fluences for 60 s. Primordial initiation was strictly localized in the youngest hyphae of the culture. After a dark period of 24 h at 25°C, the primordial initiation was assayed by counting the number of primordia. The action spectrum showed peaks of effectiveness at 260, 280, 370 and 440 nm. The quantum effectiveness at 280 nm was 4 times higher than that at 440 nm. The lethal effect of far UV (260–280 nm) was demonstrated when using 100 times higher photon fluences than that inducing primordial formation...

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Below is the direct download link to the full PDFs listed below:
(I tried to attach the PDFs here but due to my online security and anonymity practices, e.g. no java or javascript, I am not able to attach files to posts, so I used an uploader site.  Warning:  The site is located in the US, I tried to find an offshore [to the US] uploader site but I didn't find one, I'll find one for future uploads.  I consdier the site http://flyupload.com to be fine as US uploaders go, but a proxy or MUCH better yet the Tor and Vidalia bundle is highly suggested.)


The full PDF's I included in the archive:

• "Tropisms in the Mushroom Psilocybe cubensis"
  
  
• "The Effect of Light upon Basidiocarp Initiation in Psilocybe cubensis"
  
  
• "An Action Spectrum for Light-induced Primordium Formation in a Basidiomycete, Favolus arcularius (FR) AMES"
  
  
• --> I archived the three PDFs into a single folder for easy downloading...
  

How-to get the PDF's:

1. Download the WinRar compressed folder titled "PDF collection" HERE
   
   
2. Use Winrar or 7zip to decrypt and decompress the PDFs, the password is:  quickpick 

[1]  "The Effect of Light upon Basidiocarp Initiation in Psilocybe cubensis", see "Summary"
Full PDF is attached to this post...


[2] "Light and Temperature Requirements during Fruit-Body Development of a Basidiomycete Mushroom, Coprinus congregates"
by J.C. ROBERT and R. DURAND, 1978
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119601788/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0


[3] "Action spectrum for fruiting in the basidiomycete Schizophyllum commune"
by Tapani Yli-Mattila, 1985
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119509700/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0


[4] "An Action Spectrum for Light-induced Primordium Formation in a Basidiomycete, Favolus arcularius (FR) AMES", see "Relation between Irradiance and Photoresponse."
Full PDF is attached to this post...


[5] "Action Spectra for Stimulatory and Inhibitory Effects of UV and Blue Light on Fruit-Body Formation in Coprinus congregatus"
by Roger Durand and Masaki Furuya, 1985
http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/6/1175


Thoughts???

P.S. 
Tomorrow I'll post studies and info about red light and 'light-break'.

Oh yea, I have put together some great info about a yucca non-ionic OMRI spreader/sticker surfactant which is a proven fungal food via assays from Soil Foodweb International, it should be GREAT for use in peat and coir based casing and subs, not to mention it should replace ALL use of "jet dry" I read about so often, neat stuff!!!    I'll post the test results, data, etc, and the name of the product, most yucca extracts have preservatives which inhibit or even kill fungals!


And I hope I am less irritating to people now, I didn't mean to be in the first place, it's a reaction I have...anyway, happy trips!!!

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I'm definitely interested, but what are your controls? If this was compared to a grow with a common alternative, like a 6500K Daylight CFL (no one is advocating soft white or cool white) then we could get some idea what the return on the extra effort/expense is.

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I'm still working out the details but yes, a CFL at that K is what I'm looking at.  But I want to measure the lux with a light meter for a more accurate depiction of what is actually reaching the mushroom.

Any ideas/thoughts you have are very welcome!

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You certainly might discover something here, I just think that many of the more skeptical shoomers may not be dismissing your research altogether, it's just that fine tuning light to that extent may be investing a lot of effort in a low-return area.

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I hope so!  But as for teh investment and effort, there isn't really any to speak of.  I've already sourced the bulbs and they can be placed into standard fluorescent ballasts.  All a grower needs to do is order the Vita Lite, purchase the ReptiSun and maybe a fluorescent ballast if they need one:  about $50.00 all together and can be ordered while sitting in front of the computer

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Finding a good way to hydrate and rehydrate trays will do far more to improve the final output.

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If you talking about how hard it can be to moistened peat I have a nice solution.  Once media is wetted (with surfactant) it (ex. peat) will easily absorb water from spray bottle, automated overhead spray system, etc. 

I've been working on it for a day now...not tested but should work perfectly (I hope ) and backed up by assays from Dr. Laura Ingham's "Soil FoodWeb International" (SFI).  I am just about finishing up some things and I'll post the info.  Key to moistening peat (and to lesser extent coir) is use of a surfactant because peat is hydrophobic.  Once peat is moistened and if it's kept moist it won't become hydrophobic.  But once moisture level in peat drops below about 35% it becomes hydrophobic fast.

Surfactant such as this one relaxes the surface tension of water, this helps substances absorb the water, especially peat and over-dry coir.  Also very useful  for moistening bulk substrates, poo, etc.

I have put together some great info about a yucca non-ionic OMRI spreader/sticker surfactant which is a proven fungal food via assays from Soil Foodweb International, it should be GREAT for use in peat and coir based casing and subs, not to mention it should replace ALL use of "jet dry" I read about so often, neat stuff!!!    I'll post the test results, data, etc, and the name of the product, most yucca extracts have preservatives which inhibit or even kill fungals!


The great feature about how I want hydrate peat/coir is with yucca extract is that a specific yucca extract is not only a great spreader/sticker surfactant, but also a great fungal food, used in ACT it offers a high rate of fungal extraction (from compost into water).  SFI has tested (assays) the effects of this specific yucca extract and it's shown to be a good fungal food over a 6 month testing phase.  Interesting is it doesn't feed bacteria.

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Light is a minor pinning trigger.

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Getting 100% of the positive effect of light may be like improving your car's fuel efficiency by looking for the lightest ashtrays on the market. Even if you cut the weight to nothing, you're just not going to make that much of a difference.

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Nice! haha.  But because it's so easy and cheap to replace the ashtray, which will help the gas mileage, especially when gas is so expensive, I say: why not?  And it's fun

But seriously, I think the importance of light is undervalued.  I know it's not more important than temp, humidly, etc.  But it should be as important for pinhead set, etc as other factors.


Thanks,

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veda_sticks said:
this would probably be better in the advanced mycology.

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