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OnlineRedstorm
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Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay
    #8594249 - 07/04/08 08:07 AM (3 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

MINNEAPOLIS, Minnesota (AP) -- A college student claimed it was all a joke when he put his vote in this fall's presidential election up for sale on the Web auction site eBay. But prosecutors didn't see the humor.

University of Minnesota student Max P. Sanders, 19, was charged with a felony Thursday in Hennepin County District Court after allegedly asking for a minimum of $10 in exchange for voting for the bidder's preferred candidate.

"Good luck!" Sanders wrote under the eBay handle zepdrummer612. "You're (sic) country depends on You!"

Sanders was charged with one count of bribery, treating and soliciting under an 1893 state law that makes it a crime to offer to buy or sell a vote.

According to a criminal complaint, the Minnesota secretary of state's office learned about the offering on the Web site and told prosecutors. Investigators sent a subpoena to eBay and got information that led to Sanders.

The student told investigators he made the eBay posting, adding, "That was a joke. It's no longer listed," according to the complaint.

"We take it very seriously. Fundamentally, we believe it is wrong to sell your vote," said John Aiken, a spokesman for the office. "There are people that have died for this country for our right to vote, and to take something that lightly, to say, 'I can be bought.'

"It's a real shame," he said. "I can imagine the conversations being held in American Legion Clubs and VFWs about whether this is a joke or not."

The scarcely used law had its heyday in the 1920s, when many people sold their votes in exchange for liquor, Assistant County Attorney Pat Diamond said.

"There are two things going on here in terms of why it's a crime," he said. "One is the notion that elections should be a contest of ideas and not of pocketbooks -- at least not in the sense of straight-out 'I can buy your vote.' The second notion is that everybody gets one vote, and you don't get to buy another one."

Sanders and his attorney, Steven Levine, declined to comment Thursday. The charge carries up to five years' imprisonment and a $10,000 fine.

As for the offer on eBay? It got no bids.




http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/04/ebay.vote.ap/index.html?eref=rss_us

How do you guys feel about this? I'm torn. While I feel like this sort of behavior is ripe for abuse, I also feel like there is no real difference between this action and the action of catering to voters by promising tax breaks and increased entitlement programs. The only difference is that the latter is a commonplace form of bribery which is completely acceptable in today's political landscape.

Should people be able to vote for whoever they want for whatever reason they feel fit?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Redstorm]
    #8594325 - 07/04/08 09:02 AM (3 months, 1 day ago)

I wouldn't convict him.

I think its clear it was a joke.

Provided nobody won the auction, I don't see a crime.  Especially if he cancelled it.

I question the wisdom of prosecuting him, and it seems downright mean, unless there was evidence of intent beyond the posting.

I'm inclined to believe it was a joke.

If it was a joke, then the kid couldn't have had the mens rea/scienter predicate to be convicted.

I probably wouldn't have charged him.

If there's not an attempt to sell his vote, but only an intent to make a joke, he can't be convicted.


Lets not ruin the life of a 19 year old, christ.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: johnm214]
    #8594428 - 07/04/08 10:14 AM (3 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I think its clear it was a joke.





I'm going to sell my virginity on ebay
provided I can remember where I left it

one little indiscretion and the kid will forever be ineligible to vote


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InvisibleIrradiated_Feces
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #8600904 - 07/06/08 02:03 PM (2 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

One is the notion that elections should be a contest of ideas and not of pocketbooks




bullfuckingshit, how many millions do they spend campaigning again?

Theres no way they will convict this kid, give me a break. Aside from all that - is there a similar law for Canada? my votes for sale (JOKING FEDS! FUCK!) :shiftyeyes:


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Irradiated_Feces]
    #8601572 - 07/06/08 05:36 PM (2 months, 30 days ago)

they take this shit to seriously
zero tolerance is the gayest policy ever
what ever happened to subjective cases
isnt that why we have a court system in the first place
FUCKING MORONS 4GOT THE REASONS FOR EVERYTHING


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InvisibleMinstrel
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Coaster]
    #8601681 - 07/06/08 06:08 PM (2 months, 30 days ago)

Voter fraud is to be taken very seriously, but only if it is one kid no one cares about with one vote.  If it's one of the big candidates and whole counties in question, it is no big deal; you make him president for 8 years.

:rolleyes:


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Minstrel]
    #8601689 - 07/06/08 06:11 PM (2 months, 30 days ago)

the vote was never actually bought i dont c a crime


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Coaster]
    #8602111 - 07/06/08 08:06 PM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Coaster said:
the vote was never actually bought i dont c a crime




Then you didn't read the statutes.  The intent is a crime.


I argue that he didn't have the intent, and it was clearly just a joke.


Just like hte guy who tried to sell the president of OSU on ebay never got prosecuted for slavery or human traficking, it is clear, from the story, that there is no evidence the guy had the intent to sell his vote- certainly not beyond a reasonable doubt.  It seems much more likely it was a joke.

If there is some evidence or admission by him under questioning that he was serious, then lock him up.

But when people sell stuff jokingly on ebay, I don't think they intend to actually do it.


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InvisibleIrradiated_Feces
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: johnm214]
    #8602167 - 07/06/08 08:23 PM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
But when people sell stuff jokingly on ebay, I don't think they intend to actually do it.




Well these people got nailed for trying to sell a baby, but were they serious?

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=544227

only $10 grand!


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OfflineChemy

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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Redstorm]
    #8602751 - 07/07/08 12:03 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Well, after reading this Minnesota state statute I see this kid getting convicted if the prosecutor follows through with this case. It is a crime to just offer your vote for sale.

Law enforcement intervention happened without the kid canceling the auction or declaring the auction a prank.
I don't know how viable a defense would be that declaring the auction a joke or prank would offer in trial.


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Chemy]
    #8603101 - 07/07/08 04:05 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Why aren't all the congresspeople who quite obviously sell their votes to the highest bidder getting prosecuted this way?

Why is a citizen held up to higher standards than our elected officials?


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #8603106 - 07/07/08 04:08 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

cuz every1 is a fucking moron is this world
its so hard 2 deal with


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Irradiated_Feces]
    #8603108 - 07/07/08 04:10 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Well these people got nailed for trying to sell a baby, but were they serious?

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=544227

only $10 grand!




Exactly the point. Nobody knows intent except the accused and as long as they keep their mouth shut, there is always reasonable doubt.  If the baby is actually sold, then intent is established, and law enforcement should proceed at that point.


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Offlineillume
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Minstrel]
    #8603143 - 07/07/08 04:43 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Minstrel said:
Voter fraud is to be taken very seriously, but only if it is one kid no one cares about with one vote.  If it's one of the big candidates and whole counties in question, it is no big deal; you make him president for 8 years.

:rolleyes:





QFT,

Kid Should have locked himself in the white house and declared war on iraq. :sarcasticclap:


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #8603179 - 07/07/08 05:19 AM (2 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Albino_Jesus said:
Why aren't all the congresspeople who quite obviously sell their votes to the highest bidder getting prosecuted this way?

Why is a citizen held up to higher standards than our elected officials?





1.  Cuz the state of Minnesota likely wouldn't have jurisdiction over a given vote-selling scheme in the US congress, presuming your refering to this body.

2.  What is the evidence they are?



What evidence do you hve that congresspeople are quite obviously selling their votes to the highest bidder and aren't being prosecuted?

Source?

What would you do about it?


You've made the typical broadly-cast conspiracy claim, let's see what you come up with.


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: johnm214]
    #8604981 - 07/07/08 05:19 PM (2 months, 29 days ago)

If you aren't aware that lobbyists shower the great majority of congresspeople with large sums of money in exchange for continuing to vote for bills in their favor, I haven't the time to school you on this. This is a well known, mainstream practice.


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InvisibleDizzwizzle
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #8607004 - 07/08/08 03:46 AM (2 months, 28 days ago)

well im not suprised it didnt get any bids, voting is confidential for a reason


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #8610155 - 07/08/08 09:17 PM (2 months, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Albino_Jesus said:
If you aren't aware that lobbyists shower the great majority of congresspeople with large sums of money in exchange for continuing to vote for bills in their favor, I haven't the time to school you on this. This is a well known, mainstream practice.





What's that to do with your assertions or my questions?  I asked, you provide a reply unrelated to both


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OfflineAlbino_Jesus
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: johnm214]
    #8789721 - 08/18/08 06:29 AM (1 month, 18 days ago)

You only need to do a google search on something like "lobbying congress" or something similar, and read the first 10 links or so that come up to get a taste of what I'm talking about. There are literally thousands of webpages out there where you could read about this on your own. If you truly want to know about it, then look, if not, then don't. But it's not my responsibility to educate you if you don't wish to educate yourself. Peace.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Student charged with trying to sell vote on eBay [Re: Albino_Jesus]
    #8789729 - 08/18/08 06:35 AM (1 month, 18 days ago)

Again, I didn't ask for links on lobbying congress, and your suggestion that I'm ignorant of the practice neglects that you've not linked lobying to selling your vote to the highest bidder.

I suppose you'd stop me from erecting a billboard with my money?  With my friends money?  Or I just can't write my congressman?  Or what exactly?  What are you proposing, and how does that stop the fraud, which I presume you'll demonstrate.


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