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 Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 41,198
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 5 hours, 12 minutes
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 Obama is a nutty Christian too?
#8591527 - 07/03/08 01:24 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
"So one Sunday, I put on one of the few clean jackets I had, and went over to Trinity United Church of Christ on 95th Street on the South Side of Chicago. And I heard Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright deliver a sermon called "The Audacity of Hope." And during the course of that sermon, he introduced me to someone named Jesus Christ. I learned that my sins could be redeemed. I learned that those things I was too weak to accomplish myself, He would accomplish with me if I placed my trust in Him. ... Kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt that I heard God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to his will, and dedicated myself to discovering his truth."
Quote:
The Chicago Sun-Times wrote, "Obama says he reads the Bible, though not as regularly as he'd like, now that he's on the campaign trail. But he does find time to pray. 'It's not formal, me getting on my knees,' he says. 'I think I have an ongoing conversation with God... I'm constantly asking myself questions about what I'm doing, why I am doing it.'"
http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/11/12/obama_has_never_been_a_muslim_1.php#obama-on-emails
At least it's not only Bush who speaks to and has been spoken to by God.
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 8,116
Loc: The Union
Last seen: 6 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: Redstorm]
#8591598 - 07/03/08 01:46 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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All christians, and people of other faiths talk to god, its called praying. Also they all feel god talk to them, thats what I would call intuition.
It doesnt mean your crazy, stupid or anything like that. Its merely a belief system.
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 Luddite
fossil fool
Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1,844
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: DieCommie]
#8591681 - 07/03/08 02:13 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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I've seen numerous spirit beings when having out of the body experiences. One time I tried to explain to a group of spirits that I was having an out of body experience and one of them looked at me kind of funny, but never said anything. None of the spirits I've seen said a single thing to me during my entire 30 years of out of body experiences. I wonder why.
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http://www.protestwarrior.com/
http://www.thepeoplescube.com
http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/Climate.htm
  
Edited by Luddite (07/03/08 02:14 PM)
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 41,198
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 5 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: DieCommie]
#8591733 - 07/03/08 02:28 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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I may be normal and commonly accepted in today's society, but it doesn't make it any less crazy.
Most people view rituals such as rain dances and spirit quests crazy (for good reason) and praying is no different.
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 8,116
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: Redstorm]
#8591775 - 07/03/08 02:41 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Actually crazy, or insanity, is defined as 'not normal and commonly accepted in today's society'. Thus if what he does is normal and commonly accepted in today's society he is, by definition, not crazy.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 41,198
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 5 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: DieCommie]
#8591792 - 07/03/08 02:45 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Insanity
1. the condition of being insane; a derangement of the mind.
2. Law. such unsoundness of mind as affects legal responsibility or capacity.
3. Psychiatry. (formerly) psychosis.
4. extreme folly; senselessness; foolhardiness.
Derangement of the mind, unsoundness of mind, extreme folly, senselessness, and foolhardiness all sound like good ways to explain regularly speaking to a mystical fairy godfather that no one has ever seen in the history of mankind.
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 8,116
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: Redstorm]
#8591864 - 07/03/08 03:00 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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None of those definitions fit praying.
Is he deranged? No, his day to day life is functional within society.
Has he lost legal responsibility or capacity do to unsoundness of mind? No.
Has he been diagnosed with 'psychosis' or any psychotic disorder? No. Psychotic disorders are always accompanied by a failure to operate within society. They are defined by societies norms. I just double checked by looking it up in the DSM.
Does he have 'extreme folly; senselessness; foolhardiness'? Well, maybe in the political sense, but certainly not in the psychological sense.
Labeling everyone who doesnt believe the same things you do as 'crazy' or 'insane' is a huge logical fallacy.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 41,198
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 5 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: DieCommie]
#8591887 - 07/03/08 03:05 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Which fallacy is it?
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 8,116
Loc: The Union
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: Redstorm]
#8591948 - 07/03/08 03:19 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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hmmm... Id say its just a old fashioned non sequitur. Obama being does not follow from him believe something different than you, or from him simply praying.
I forget, I have to be careful with my wording around law types. Ill restate my last sentence as "Labeling everyone who doesnt believe the same things you do as 'crazy' or 'insane' is arrogant and contrary to freedom of thought."
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blackegg
...has left the building.
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 1,020
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: DieCommie]
#8591974 - 07/03/08 03:27 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
At least it's not only Bush who speaks to and has been spoken to by God.
Don't forget being able to see into your soul!
I like how Obama make a joke at his own
expense (the 'put on my only clean jacket' bit) before laying out how he met
...a little 'someone named Jesus Christ'!
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'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 41,198
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 5 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: DieCommie]
#8591993 - 07/03/08 03:32 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Freedom of thought has nothing to do with it. He's free to believe whatever ridiculous notion that he pleases, just as I am free to believe that he has a mental defect that is widespread throughout a large majority of people that inhabit the world.
I never said I'd like to restrict his beliefs; I just think it is odd that he believes in something just as fantastic as Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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blackegg
...has left the building.
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 1,020
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: Redstorm]
#8592049 - 07/03/08 03:47 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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...or Freedom of Thought in America.
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'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,331
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: Redstorm]
#8592977 - 07/03/08 08:36 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
I never said I'd like to restrict his beliefs; I just think it is odd that he believes in something just as fantastic as Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I agree. If I were to sincerely believe in Norse mythology (whatever that all consists of... possibly Thor's hammer hitting an anvil in the sky to produce lightening, for example), & profess it publicly & casually with conviction that it is correct, most (if not all) people in the U.S. (including everybody who calls them self a 'Christian') would think I am insane & possibly even have a mental defect. It is very amusing that they can so easily see in others what they can't even fathom exists in them self.
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"Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every pine needle, every sandy shore, every humming insect is holy... We are part of the earth and it is part of us... The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth." - Chief Seattle
"...the role our nation has taken... of those who make peaceful revolution impossible by refusing to give up the privileges and the pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investments... we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values... When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 727
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: Redstorm]
#8593208 - 07/03/08 10:06 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Jesus Christ (no pun intended) have people forgot what "pandering" is?
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"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."
--Gangaji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"
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dill705
fuckin' J key sticks
Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 2,252
Loc: A continual state of dark...
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: SoY]
#8602924 - 07/07/08 01:21 AM (6 months, 3 hours ago) |
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Clearly the pun was intended... otherwise it would have made sense in the sentence...
I think the church bit is pandering as well, 20 years of pandering. He went to chicago and organized his community and joined his church just to run for office.
Like EP said above, nordics aren't getting elected in America, and neither are atheists.
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Drug control - $12 billion/yr
Incarceration - $30 billion/yr
Police protection - $9.1 billion/yr
Legal adjudication - $4.5 billion/yr
Having a populous trained to recognize their own bodies as government regulated property, and to gorge exclusively on government approved brands of pharmaceuticals and fast food - PRICELESS
This sig brought to you by: ExplosiveMango ~ ripe fruity taste, explosive diahrea!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 24,231
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: Redstorm]
#8612672 - 07/09/08 11:26 AM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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How can you be a christian and not be nutty?
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 7,251
Loc: Americas
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: Icelander]
#8612888 - 07/09/08 12:15 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
How can you be a christian and not be nutty?
You've always struck me as [edited to remove personalism] and this post reinforces that observation.
That you seem to have such a prejudicial view of what a christian is that you can say being nutty and christian are inseperable is pretty incredible to me.
Perhaps people don't fit into your rubric? People you don't know and apparently don't understand?
I've met many chrisitans, many I wouldn't call nutty.
Is a person that accepts a belief that is wrong nutty? Is a person that accepts a belief system will being ignorant of that belief system's entirety, some of the unknown portions parts being things they'd disagree with, neccesarily nutty?
Is a person that subscribes to a label that differs in scope as to your determination of that label's scope neccesarily nutty if the noncongruent portions are nutty to both you and the person?
Get over yourself.
--------------------
Cops caught raiding an "illegal search trap-house" growing only two Christmas trees.
Digg this story!
Edited by johnm214 (07/09/08 07:42 PM)
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dill705
fuckin' J key sticks
Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 2,252
Loc: A continual state of dark...
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: johnm214]
#8612948 - 07/09/08 12:37 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Is a person that accepts a belief that is wrong nutty? Is a person that accepts a belief system will being ignorant of that belief system's entirety, some of the unknown portions parts being things they'd disagree with, neccesarily nutty?
No, not nutty, just ignorant, maybe even a little stupid from time to time 
--------------------
Drug control - $12 billion/yr
Incarceration - $30 billion/yr
Police protection - $9.1 billion/yr
Legal adjudication - $4.5 billion/yr
Having a populous trained to recognize their own bodies as government regulated property, and to gorge exclusively on government approved brands of pharmaceuticals and fast food - PRICELESS
This sig brought to you by: ExplosiveMango ~ ripe fruity taste, explosive diahrea!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 24,231
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: johnm214]
#8613094 - 07/09/08 01:31 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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Is a person that accepts a belief that is wrong nutty? Is a person that accepts a belief system will being ignorant of that belief system's entirety, some of the unknown portions parts being things they'd disagree with, neccesarily nutty?
Is a person that subscribes to a label that differs in scope as to your determination of that label's scope neccesarily nutty if the noncongruent portions are nutty to both you and the person?
Yeah I think it's nutty to believe in things there is no evidence for and to have to ignore things there is evidence of. I grew up in a fundamentalist christian family and have been in churches all over much of the country of different denominations. I saw it from the inside out and never met a christian who made sense. So...
Get over yourself.
I have little concern about your feelings toward me personally. Thats not part of this discussion nor should it be outside of PMs, Mr. bible verse.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 7,251
Loc: Americas
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Re: Obama is a nutty Christian too? [Re: Icelander]
#8614614 - 07/09/08 07:55 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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The bible is evidence, as is testimony from preachers and other folks who claim to have heard from god what his plan or intent was.
So the christians that have recieved messages from god, or read or heard of biblical verse, or who heard other's accounts of their communications recieved from god do have evidence to support their beliefs.
In the case of conflicting facts between biblical and experimentally-derived data you first have to presume that the christian is aware of the data, and then presume that the chrisitian believes in what the bible says. Then of those who believe in what the bible says you have to believe that they have sufficient knowledge to evaluate the liklihood of the experimentally-derived data's truth relative to the biblical version's truth, presuming their interpretation of the bible conflicts with the experimentally-derived data they understand enough to comprehend.
Then you have to believe that the person who believes in the biblical interpretation and rejects the experimentally-determined facts, where the two conflict, is doing so in such a matter that is unreasonable or nutty.
There are numerous plausible examples of people who fall outside of these presumptions. Foremost those being ignorant to what the bible says and ignorant of whatever 'scientific' evidence conflicts therewith. How could these people be nutty? I'd say they are most of the people I know who are christian. There is very little knowledge, I'd imagine, amongst christians or even atheists of conflicts between the bible and science.
The only one that jumps out at me is the age of the earth problem and the lack of evidence for biblical creationism coupled with the evidence that refutes both ideas.
I'd contend that almost all of the people on this planet don't have a sufficient understanding of both the bible and the scientific theories in these two instances to even be in a position of being able to intelligently evaluate whether a conflict exists and if so, if there is sufficient evidence to reject one theory.
Explain where I'm misunderstanding you- if I am.
And I edited my prior post to remove the arrogance remark, as it seemed like you were correct to identify it as a worthless aside.
--------------------
Cops caught raiding an "illegal search trap-house" growing only two Christmas trees.
Digg this story!
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