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 Tchan909
facefaulted
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,129
Loc: SF Bay Area
Last seen: 44 minutes, 35 seconds
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 Roman spirituality
#8552880 - 06/23/08 01:22 AM (2 months, 14 days ago) |
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I've been reading about the history of Roman mythology. It would appear that, before they absorbed the Greek mythology, with its extensive histories and stories about natural archetypes, the Romans had a highly animistic theological perspective. They would plow the fields, say a blessing to the god of plowing fields. They would collect the grains, say a blessing to the god of collecting grains. They would store the grains, say a blessing to the god of grain storage. Every action, every verb, had a corresponding god, whose name was usually derived from the verb itself. Liturgy relied mainly on hierarchies between these different verbs/gods. They didn't bother to personify their gods; it was almost a linguistic system, with the exception that if they failed to honor it, spiritual catastrophe was guaranteed to follow.
The Romans were also quite fond of warfare and conquest. They would conquer surrounding cultures and assimilate their deities. When they conquered the Greeks, with their personified and highly storied histories of the archetypal natural deities, the Roman gods themselves were gradually transformed. Jupiter, being "himself" a rather faceless idea representing thunder itself to archaic Romans, eventually became synonymous with Zeus, the highly storied and personified Greek god of thunder. And so it went with Roman deities in general, until the "verb-deities" of the past were forgotten, and Roman mythology became what it appears to us now: a veritable pastiche of the mythologies they conquered.
The U.S. is considered by many to be a kind of modern Rome. It's hard to deny that America has taken a lot of cues from the ancient Roman Empire, in terms of empire and culture. The parallels are even more striking from a theological perspective. If America truly has an "official religion," it is undeniably Christianity. Christianity, as practiced by Americans, is a religion absorbed from middle-Eastern peoples, and then so profoundly modified by the Roman culture as to become something that, while almost identical scripturally, has taken on a uniquely Western character.
Terence McKenna delved into this when he described "Dominator Culture." The Roman culture had little substance of its own, but was so adept at absorbing other cultures through conquest that it has become the de facto culture of modern Western society, a tradition unbroken for thousands of years. This tradition continues today, through our language and cultural assumptions about other cultures. It is strengthened by immigration and the huge amount of information exchange that has come about in modern times. Just look at the new-agers - revolutionaries in their own terms, Romans by any other. They formulate mixed versions of other cultural beliefs to suit their own needs.
Discuss.
Edited by Tchan909 (06/23/08 01:56 AM)
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 redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 9,846
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Re: Roman spirituality [Re: Tchan909]
#8563387 - 06/25/08 04:44 PM (2 months, 11 days ago) |
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the pope rose as Rome fell.
then after the Spanish inquisition,
England split from Rome (because of Anne Boleyn's effect on the king)
sex rules.
she lost her head, but was quite the feminist!
eventually this split proved to be a healthy move.
I hope more feminism, and more rational divisive splits from power hungry churches and other corporations leads to the ploughing under of existing oppressors.
the internet may help,
it seems that apple computer is up to something in this regard.
wait and see.
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Lion
Balance
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 3,211
Loc: Kali Yuga
Last seen: 5 days, 21 hours
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Verb deities FTW 
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"You can't make something original? Don't worry about it. Make a cup of clay so your brother can drink." ~Rumi
"My child, because you think you are the body, for a long time you have been bound. Know you are pure awareness. With this knowledge as your sword, cut through your chains and be happy!" ~Ashtavakra Gita
"May all beings realize the ecstatic transparency of their own minds." ~Lao Tzu
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Middleman
Third Party
Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 4,039
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England never split with Rome like the US never split with England.
The empire never ended... the elite continue to worship Saturn.
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Catalysts to say what has never been said, to see what has never been seen. To draw, paint, sing, sculpt, dance and act what has never before been done. To push the envelope of creativity and language. And whats really important is, I call it, the felt presence of direct experience. Which is a fancy term which just simply means we have to stop consuming our culture. We have to create culture. Don't watch TV, don't read magazines, don't even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time, where you are now, is the most immediate sector of your universe. And if you're worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or somebody else, you are disempowered. You are giving it all away to icons. Icons which are maintained by an electronic media, so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is shit-brained this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion. And what is real is you and your friends, your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, and your fears. And we are told no. We're unimportant, we're peripheral, get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that, and then you're a player. You don't even want to play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world. Where is that at? -Terence
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Tchan909
facefaulted
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,129
Loc: SF Bay Area
Last seen: 44 minutes, 35 seconds
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Re: Roman spirituality [Re: Middleman]
#8565287 - 06/26/08 01:59 AM (2 months, 11 days ago) |
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Exactly my point... we have our own cultural variations, but the ultimate grandfather-culture we all (as westerners, as I'm guessing most of us here are) hail from is one of skillfully rapacious assimilation - of people, resources, and ideas. Rome was the spore, the rest of the world was the substrate. The tradition continues today in all sorts of ways, both obvious and not. Their particular methods of rape now govern global international policy as well as interpersonal relations.
I'm not going to say that the rest of the world was free of rapacious culture, but Rome simply did it best. I myself am of mostly Germanic origin, and my ancestors worshiped Odin, the God of War. At least they were creative about it though, you know?
It only makes sense that, among all the other cultures in the world, one that was rapacious would end up holding a disproportionate sway. We must always be aware of this.
Edited by Tchan909 (06/26/08 02:09 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 9,846
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Re: Roman spirituality [Re: Tchan909]
#8566157 - 06/26/08 10:49 AM (2 months, 11 days ago) |
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what about genghis khan?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 20,972
Loc: underbelly
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father of the Dali Lama.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
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Boots
Disenchanted
Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 908
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 2 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Roman spirituality [Re: Icelander]
#8568721 - 06/26/08 08:45 PM (2 months, 10 days ago) |
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It sounds like one could easily turn this into a "Rome as a parasite" analogy, but I think it's rather admirable of the Romans. Conquer a land and take it's culture.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 20,972
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Roman spirituality [Re: Boots]
#8570297 - 06/27/08 08:36 AM (2 months, 10 days ago) |
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I vastly prefer the Greeks.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
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Visionary Tools
Kiffah
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 2,933
Last seen: 25 days, 18 hours
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Re: Roman spirituality [Re: Icelander]
#8570319 - 06/27/08 08:49 AM (2 months, 10 days ago) |
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Fuck that. Sidonians is where it's at.
Is this "My ancient culture is better than yours?" In which case, they are. The Sidonians were excellent ship builders, founded Carthage, and if they had cooperated with the Greeks, Rome would just have been a footnote in history, like Romania.*
*Which wouldn't have been called Romania :P
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In times of universal deceit, the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 20,972
Loc: underbelly
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I like the Greek Islands.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
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