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 Rahz
Spore Viewer
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 1,816
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 Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: gluke bastid]
#8566414 - 06/26/08 12:10 PM (1 month, 25 days ago) |
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>>>>I'm a man and I'd like to know why I am not "in charge" of deciding whether or not I am in a relationship.
Instincts.
Women are much more discriminatory. There are exceptions in regards to what is offered materially, and there are exceptions based on a woman's self-worth, but from an instinctive POV women have much more at stake than men. A person can ignore their instincts, but the instincts won't ignore them.
>>>>Nothing, that is, except for the fact that most people accept the gender role they are assigned without question and then spend the rest of their lives repressing themselves whenever the natural instinct to behave a different way comes up.
We all have masculine and feminine sides. In this, there is little difference between men and women. However our body chemistry in relation to sex is different. Left on our own, we would all be fairly balanced. Place members of the opposite sex together, and things change.  This is not just a social construct. The goal IMO should be a balance of these two energies, so that people can use them, instead of being used by them. A balanced person can switch modes at will, and will not feel a need to personify one over the other. However, within the context of a relationship, if PASSION is desired, polarity must exist. If there is a man who really wants to be "manhandled" by a woman (or another man), hey, that's great. At least there is some excitement involved. The slip into gender roles is natural IMO, and more often than not, the man will have a desire to play the masculine role, and the female will have a desire to play the feminine role. Again, there are exceptions.
>>>>The type of thinking that you are putting forward here limits both men and women.
Ha. I'm no Nazi. As far as I'm concerned, people have the freedom to do whatever they wish. Far be it for me to tell people how to act. If someone believes they must actually follow my words "because I said so", that's THEIR FAULT. People limit themselves.
>>>>IMO, life is too short to decide that, based on the fact that you have a particular set of genitalia, it means that you have to feel/think/act in a limited set of ways.
This is not what I'm suggesting. Life is too short to cast the instincts away like some old used condom.  The problem is that people don't trust themselves, and believe that they will be swallowed by their instincts. Instead of learning self-trust, most people are hiding from the parts of themselves that seem ugly.
>>>>Leave gender behind.
 Sure, be androgynous. If that floats someones boat, fine, but I suspect the answer isn't that easy. Leaving the gender behind, is leaving the passion behind. I wouldn't suggest that the male dominated frame is the only one that creates passion. As long as there is gender polarity (regardless of sex) there will be passion.
What kind of relationships do you like?
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9,100
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 1 hour, 8 minutes
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: xFrockx]
#8566464 - 06/26/08 12:22 PM (1 month, 25 days ago) |
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Every time a thread like this is started, it seems to be filled with annoying generalizations. This thread is no exception.
Allow me to add mine. 
Humans are mammals.
The differences between male and female humans are quite similar to the differences between most male and female mammals of the same species. BUT there are exceptions to every rule.
In general, like most other mammals, human males tend to grow larger, taller and stronger than human females. Testosterone encourages muscle growth, and testicles produce larger amounts of this hormone than the female anatomy can.
In general, like most other mammals, human females can become pregnant and carry a baby to term inside their body before giving birth. In order to do this, women need extra internal organs.
Since women are (in general) smaller than men, and they give valuable body space to their reproductive organs... their other organs are often significantly smaller than their male counterparts. For example, female humans have, on average, only 70% of the lung capacity of men.
Before you guys start feeling bad for the smaller, weaker female... remember: women tend to live longer than the larger, stronger males. In this case, bigger is not necessarily better.
On a similar note, the weaker female form can live for longer periods of time without food, because of their curvaceous fat deposits. Women generally eat less than males, and women can generally live longer without eating. Big muscles are not efficient.
Post-puberty, men and women are fed by different hormones. These hormones are responsible for many of the physical differences between the sexes. They also impact the mind. Testosterone and Estrogen are sorta' like drugs... and post-puberty, humans are sorta' under the influence of these drugs. This is part of the reason why men are from Mars and women are from Venus... if you will.
To over-simplify, during stressful times, testosterone encourages the fight or flight instinct in males... while estrogen encourages females to fight, fly or EMPATHIZE. This KEY difference allows adult women to be more socially complex than adult males. It also, helps explain why men and women seem to communicate and argue differently... and why adult women generally talk more than men.
Men and women have different hip structures. The hip connects to the leg differently allowing women more space between the legs to give birth.
Men tend to store most of their fat in their bellies. Women store theirs in the hips, thighs, buttocks and breasts.
During pregnancy, women begin to lactate.
Females and males tend to have different opinions about things like dampness and blood. Words like 'damp' and 'moist' bother men more than they bother women, who associate those words with sexual arousal. When a man bleeds, it is usually because he has been hurt. When a woman bleeds, it usually means she isn't pregnant.
So yes, men and women are different. Men are bigger and stronger. Women are quite simply, more complex.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -Inigo Montoya
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 20,731
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: Cervantes]
#8566724 - 06/26/08 01:13 PM (1 month, 25 days ago) |
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Gee, replies like this could kill debate entirely.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,114
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 9 days, 8 hours
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: Rahz]
#8566735 - 06/26/08 01:16 PM (1 month, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
>>>>I'm a man and I'd like to know why I am not "in charge" of deciding whether or not I am in a relationship.
Instincts.
So if I have no desire to enter into a relationship, I'm going against my instincts? If a woman says "will you be my boyfriend" it is my instinct to say "yes?" Your logic is flawed.
Quote:
We all have masculine and feminine sides.
No we don't. I am arguing that we all have the same sides but it is an arbitrary culture that makes a distincion between which ones are masculine and which ones are feminine. Hence the African tribes in which men have to wear make-up and women aren't allowed to. Or fundamentalist arab countries in which women aren't supposed to show any flesh. Or in China 100 years ago when it was "feminine" for a woman to have her feet bound and thereby couldn't walk. These are extreme examples of gender as a limitation but in my opinion it is essentially the same in our culture.
Saying men must be strong coincides with men not being allowed to cry or feel fear or pain.
Saying women are pliant like water coincides with women being passive and unassertive.
Whether or not you celebrate it is one question. Another question which you have yet to address is what makes you so damn convinced that the differences between gender (which vary enormously from culture to culture) are "natural" as opposed to artificial?
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However our body chemistry in relation to sex is different. Left on our own, we would all be fairly balanced. Place members of the opposite sex together, and things change.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here...that there is no difference between men and women until they are in the same room with each other and then due to chemistry one assumes one role and the other assumes another?
Quote:
The goal IMO should be a balance of these two energies, so that people can use them, instead of being used by them. Why not take it further and have the goal be that each person tries to balance their own energies instead of personifying only one half of the coin? A balanced person can switch modes at will, and will not feel a need to personify one over the other. However, within the context of a relationship, if PASSION is desired, polarity must exist. If there is a man who really wants to be "manhandled" by a woman (or another man), hey, that's great. At least there is some excitement involved.
See I sort of agree with you. Sort of. In my experience polarity is not neccesary for passion at all. Are you talking about sex, and that there needs to be one who is aggressive and one who is passive? I prefer sex in which there are two people being equally aggressive (or three) 
However that is all sort besides the point. My point is that why not let encourage everyone involved in the relationship to embody whatever "gender" they want whenever they want? To go back and forth. I'm a man in a relationship with a woman who previously only dated other woman, and I never knew what I was missing in bed until I got in this relationship where I can play the "man" or the "woman" or "boy" or "girl" or whatever. Straight sex is severely limited by gender and I didn't realize that until I feel in love with a butch dyke 
It seems like you allow for what I am describing. Although you describe it as "an exception." I detect a reluctance to accept a serious challenge to automatically assigned gender based on your language:
Quote:
The slip into gender roles is natural IMO, and more often than not, the man will have a desire to play the masculine role, and the female will have a desire to play the feminine role. Again, there are exceptions.
I am simply advocating that we spend more times slipping into the gender we were not assigned at birth. It is sexy, fun, liberating, and ultimately a radical form of protest against the status quo.
Quote:
This is not what I'm suggesting. Life is too short to cast the instincts away like some old used condom.
I agree. But you are suggesting that gendered behavior is an instinct. I am arguing the opposite. I believe it is instinctual for people to behave in every possible way afforded to us by nature, but it is the oppressive presence of gender that tells us "you can't be ________ because of your sex." Now you, personally, may be totally at home in your gender, and it doesn't limit you. Well, in that case, you are lucky. Other people aren't so lucky. Were society more free, people could choose the gender they want regardless of sex and wouldn't face the type of discrimination they do today. You seem to enjoy being "masculine." Would you enjoy it any less if you had the choice?
Quote:
>>>>Leave gender behind.
Sure, be androgynous. If that floats someones boat, fine, but I suspect the answer isn't that easy. Leaving the gender behind, is leaving the passion behind. I wouldn't suggest that the male dominated frame is the only one that creates passion. As long as there is gender polarity (regardless of sex) there will be passion.
I'm not neccesarily talking about androgyny. I'm talking about choosing your gender and defining it for yourself. I don't buy the dichotomy between men and women that is assigned by society because it doesn't apply to me and my relationships. Period. Your model of gender defines me as an exception to the "natural" rule. My model defines me as one of a billion possibilites of gender in which everyone gets to be themselves.
Quote:
What kind of relationships do you like?
Experimental, passionate, loving, encouraging, supportive, positive.
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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trashion
girl anachronism
Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 85
Last seen: 9 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: clearsight]
#8566801 - 06/26/08 01:30 PM (1 month, 25 days ago) |
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I'm a post-genderist. I don't believe there are two fundamentally separate genders. I think that male-bodied humans have more upper body strength and a tendency towards aggression. But IMO the differences end there. All of this bullshit about a woman "needing" to follow a "strong" man is idiotic. The only other differences are due to social conditioning and societal pressures. In my opinion, there are limitless "genders," that is, social and sexual identities. If you feel you need to pigeonhole yourself, be my guest. I'd rather not.
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Boots
Disenchanted
Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 830
Loc: Northwood, Ohio, U.S.A.
Last seen: 10 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: clearsight]
#8568727 - 06/26/08 08:47 PM (1 month, 24 days ago) |
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How are we different biologically or sociologically?
The biological differences are pretty well-known and the sociological ones differ from culture to culture so read a book.
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boletusoftruth
Psychedelic Funk
Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 422
Loc: MASS
Last seen: 2 days, 21 minutes
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: Cervantes]
#8568781 - 06/26/08 08:59 PM (1 month, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Men tend to store most of their fat in their bellies. Women store theirs in the hips, thighs, buttocks, and BIG ASS MOTHA FUCKING TITAYSSS.
Completely uncalled for...
This is supposed to be a philosophical discussion.
I think that before our society developed women had more power, they choose only the best mates. Once higher emotions came into play, women are chosen by the men.
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
~Jimi Hendrix
In the search of truth in the dark cave of ignorace, only knowlege will light your way...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7683064/an/0/page/0
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XUL
Milf Hunter
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 2,195
Last seen: 1 month, 2 days
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: xFrockx]
#8568979 - 06/26/08 09:53 PM (1 month, 24 days ago) |
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I think this is true in some cases. I also think that it could be a different scenario. Think of the billions of unique relationships between everyone who ever lived. I know men who believe that all the decision making should be left to men and that women should be passive. I also know men who are run by women. Men who are on a leash an inch long.
Personally I wouldn't be run by a women. I would listen to her advice. Take it into consideration, then make a logical decision.
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xFrockx
Fucking Hippie
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1,052
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 5 hours, 15 minutes
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: XUL]
#8570232 - 06/27/08 08:07 AM (1 month, 24 days ago) |
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I think the women telling men what to do thing is best seen true when you look at the consequences of it not working.
For example, if your girlfriend says you need to do somthing that isnt unreasonable and you don't do it then where are you? Not in a good place, and certainly not one that aids reproduction 
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I want to tell you a story,
About a little man,
If I can,
A gnome named Grimble Grumble,
And little gnomes stay in their homes,
Eating, sleeping, Drinking their wine
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,590
Last seen: 24 days, 12 hours
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: xFrockx]
#8570268 - 06/27/08 08:23 AM (1 month, 24 days ago) |
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I feel that the Son/Sun will stab Mamma with his staff... Mom will rape the beans from the earth, not pay a dime, and increase prices slowly over time, KACHING!! Coffee??
Sun will cook Mamma to a golden crisp so healthy that it kills you. Sun/Son don't give a fuck. Just does what he does. Union.
Mom will cut her chest open to make things... unnatural?? *GASP*
And Jesus liked to kiss her on the __________.
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Rahz
Spore Viewer
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 1,816
Last seen: 25 minutes, 30 seconds
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: XUL]
#8573551 - 06/28/08 06:59 AM (1 month, 23 days ago) |
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>>>>So if I have no desire to enter into a relationship, I'm going against my instincts? If a woman says "will you be my boyfriend" it is my instinct to say "yes?" Your logic is flawed.
I don't think it's instinctive to spend time with someone just because they want you to, though it might be instinctive to be her boyfriend for at least 30 minutes.
What I was saying, is that most relationships form out of a guys attention, and a girls acceptance. It's generally the guy who "takes it to the next level". I'm not saying it doesn't happen differently, or that it's a bad thing, just that it's not simply a cultural phenomena for a male to take the lead, and the female to accept, or not. A person has the right to experience whatever relationships they want, and I see nothing wrong with that, but I don't see sex becoming totally arbitrary some day because culture decides it's OK.
>>>>there is no difference between men and women until they are in the same room with each other and then due to chemistry one assumes one role and the other assumes another?
I think that on average, men are naturally more aggressive.
>>>>See I sort of agree with you. Sort of. In my experience polarity is not necessary for passion at all. Are you talking about sex, and that there needs to be one who is aggressive and one who is passive? I prefer sex in which there are two people being equally aggressive (or three)
However that is all sort besides the point. My point is that why not let encourage everyone involved in the relationship to embody whatever "gender" they want whenever they want? To go back and forth. I'm a man in a relationship with a woman who previously only dated other woman, and I never knew what I was missing in bed until I got in this relationship where I can play the "man" or the "woman" or "boy" or "girl" or whatever. Straight sex is severely limited by gender and I didn't realize that until I feel in love with a butch dyke
It's not so much the sex, as it is the relationships polarity. It could be balanced but usually one person will be leading the other. I would guess that though you play role-reversal, one of the two of you is somewhat more involved in leading the relationship, and this fact isn't really ever lost. I could be wrong. Since most couples aren't going to be 50/50 in the masculine/feminine department, trying to have a 50/50 relationship might not be a passion builder.
>>>>You seem to enjoy being "masculine." Would you enjoy it any less if you had the choice?
I have a choice, that's why I'm so manly.  I like relating to women on a feminine level, but I don't get much out of feeling submissive.
>>>>Your model of gender defines me as an exception to the "natural" rule. My model defines me as one of a billion possibilities of gender in which everyone gets to be themselves.
I don't think you're an exception, perhaps just more balanced than "normal". For most people, this isn't simply a decision, but something to be worked for. Choice can guide a person along, and perhaps choosing gender opposites can help this process along, if they were conscious of this possibility... or maybe even if they weren't.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 9,756
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Re: How/Are men and women different and why? [Re: Rahz]
#8573563 - 06/28/08 07:08 AM (1 month, 23 days ago) |
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the premise delivered in the first post of this thread
is probably true.
the problem is honesty
how does one find a "truly" or "reasonably" good woman,
how does one find a "truly" or "reasonably" good man,
do they discover themselves only after they notice that the rule is already in effect?
is it only honest if it is persisting beyond 3 months?
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