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 Wiccan_Seeker
INFJcounselor-idealist
 
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 16,831
Loc: Virgo Supercluster (or b...
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 Re: Proton radiation and Evolution [Re: tripsis]
#8543748 - 06/20/08 09:29 AM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Proton radiation is like a big bouncy ball projectile. It has a tendency to bounce off stuff you throw it at. It is easily stopped but mother nature tends to throw them harder than any other particle. Sheer velocity might give it quite some penetration, but its in essence a bouncy ball.
Neutron radiation is like a cannon ball, it has penetration and the ability to turn stuff it hits radioactive.
Alpha particles combine the two, not much penetration, but they do tremendous damage locally, like a huge bouncy ball with a cannonball core. A sheet of paper is usually all it takes to stop alpha particles, but the paper itself gets messed with to no end.
If you have a strand of DNA and a particle of radiation, an alpha particle will have the highest probability to do damage. Its biggest and heaviest.
You can only take half as much alpha radiation as you can take neutron & gamma radiation before you die. Alpha is easily stopped BECAUSE it messes with stuff so effectively, neutrons tend to pass through it without touching. I';m not sure how things are for proton radiation but because itgs a charged particle I suspect its definitely a shover and pusher as an alpha particle is and as such, is more "toxic" than neutrons.
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 undergrounder
Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NSW
Last seen: 13 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: Proton radiation and Evolution [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#8543924 - 06/20/08 10:32 AM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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oh yeah i actually meant neutron radiation by the way, i think that's what Carl said now that you mention it.
tripsis that's a pretty extensive list, i don't see why existing in a host cell or not would disqualify something as living, cell or not, it's just an environment, we can only live inside a world with oxygen that we can breath, if you take us out into space, we die... but that doesn't mean we're not alive because we depend on a host earth.
Viruses do, however, evolve... i can't see how something dead can evolve through genetic mutation and survival of the fittest if it's not alive in at least some point of its 'life-cycle'.
Anyway if that list is to be taken as gospel, then would a virus be considered alive when it IS in a host cell? or are all the functions of its replication, abuses of the host cell's own functions? wiki on this point is kind of unclear 
How something could go from technically 'dead' to 'alive' after mere change of environment, then perhaps the difference between life and death is only the correct mixture in the chemical soup.. on the other hand, if it abuses the replication function of the host cell somehow, then that itself is interesting to think about..
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 RIP
Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
   
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 6,504
Loc: The Union
Last seen: 22 minutes, 13 seconds
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Re: Proton radiation and Evolution [Re: undergrounder]
#8543949 - 06/20/08 10:44 AM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Anyway if that list is to be taken as gospel
I wouldnt go there. Its a man made list with arbitrary requirements. Man kind can choose to define life in any way, and you can choose to define life in any way. Nature however knows no distinction between life and non-life. Life is a man made concept.
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Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
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undergrounder
Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NSW
Last seen: 13 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: Proton radiation and Evolution [Re: DieCommie]
#8543966 - 06/20/08 10:50 AM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Life is a man made concept.
True, and good point.. i wonder though, because red blood cells are alive and yet they don't evolve and attack the insides of our bloodstreams and try to escape and take over the world, same thing for every one of the billions and billions of 'living' thigns that live in us. It seems odd that some things live only in the service of others, while other things take ownership of their own life and the lives that work together to keep it alive. It seems stange that 99.99% of the world's 'living' things live in slavery to the other >0.01%. In that scenario you would say that life is more than simply reproduction, metabolism, cellular structure and the like.
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RIP
Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
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Wiccan_Seeker
INFJcounselor-idealist
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 16,831
Loc: Virgo Supercluster (or b...
Last seen: 7 minutes, 35 seconds
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Re: Proton radiation and Evolution [Re: undergrounder]
#8544306 - 06/20/08 12:47 PM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
actually meant neutron radiation by the way, i think that's what Carl said now that you mention it.
I think he meant proton radiation 
Free neutrons have a mean life of approximately 15 minutes, so even if you hurl a neutron at near light speed, it will only travel 15 light minutes before it disintegrates, so not even our Sun's neutrons reach us.
Protons however, weight for weight, are the major component of most stars. If they decay at all they have a halflife of at least 100.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 years. (10 35 Y) Thats more than enough time to reach us from a galaxy away if they were blown at us with a pea shooter 
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ENDGAME EARTHLINGS THE CRASH COURSE MONEY AS DEBT ARITHMETIC, POPULATION & ENERGY
ZEITGEIST part II: ADDENDUM JB TAYLOR - MY STROKE OF INSIGHT ASPARTAME: SWEET MISERY
PiHKAL TiHKAL BEST TRIPPING MANUAL SALVIA DIVINORUM MDMA DRUG LIBRARY MEDICAL & PHARMS DATABASE
ALCOHOL DISTILLING POT GROWING SHROOMERY CULTIVATION ARCHIVE EROWID MIRROR RHODIUM ARCHIVE
Edited by Wiccan_Seeker (06/20/08 09:10 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 16,305
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 hour, 55 minutes
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Re: Proton radiation and Evolution [Re: tripsis]
#8545185 - 06/20/08 05:16 PM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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> Virii aren't living because they don't fulfill the requirements of what is living.
Please don't take the following as an argument against what you just posted. I agree with everything you said. I find it amazing that a jar of virus "salt" is not alive by our definitions, yet these same viruses can die if left in an unhealthy environment. (Again, I'm not debating against the definitions. I find the complexity of the system of life to be absolutely beautiful. In this case, so close to being alive that it can die, yet still not close enough.)
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Just another spore in the wind.
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undergrounder
Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NSW
Last seen: 13 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: Proton radiation and Evolution [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#8545837 - 06/20/08 10:24 PM (3 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
I think he meant proton radiation
Whatever it was, it came from other stars, could penetrate through mountains and made a Geiger counter go "cracklecracklecracklebipcrackle"
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RIP
Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
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