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InvisibleCameron
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Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8502584 - 06/09/08 07:28 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Just... one... more... kick! :beatadeadhorse:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: Cameron]
    #8502683 - 06/09/08 08:19 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cameron said:
OK, so the 'nature of the individual' is the sole cause of psychosis? :lol:




Yes, quite obviously. Marijuana doesn't cause schizophrenia in those who do not have a disposition allowing for it. It doesn't cause it at all.

Quote:


Not the nature of the individual *plus* the drug? The drug is a factor whether or not you stretch the bounds of personal responsibility to the max. Without it, there would be no psychosis, therefore it is a cause. It doesn't get any simpler than that dude.




The cause of the schizophrenia was the subsequent reaction, not marijuana itself. The nature of the experience influenced by marijuana is responsible, and this is entirely within the realm of the individual. You haven't demonstrated any direct link that suggests marijuana itself causes schizophrenia. How the individual handles the experience determines the development of any mental problems, not marijuana itself. Any number of situations and experiences could be handled in a manner in which schizophrenia develops - clearly evidenced by the fact that not everyone with schizophrenia has ever done marijuana. Clearly the stimulus for an experience is not the cause, but rather how the individual mentally handles the subsequent experience.

Interestingly enough, you chose not to respond to my example of the angry man with the car crash, which demonstrates quite well the nature of this. :strokebeard:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: Cameron]
    #8502696 - 06/09/08 08:25 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cameron said:
Are you saying that marijuana acts as the microscope, enabling one to better observe the underlying psychotic attributes of the person in question? If so, I'd have to disagree. Marijuana doesn't just bring those symptoms to the foreground, it also exaggerates them greatly (as anyone who has experienced 'weed paranoia/anxiety' knows).




How have you determined the difference between bringing more awareness to an underlying mental state/experience and exaggerating them greatly, exactly? How do you know if you are experiencing something to a greater degree or if it is simply "exaggerated"? :lol:

Of course, the entirety of one's mental experience is experienced to a greater degree while on psychedelics and similar drugs; the question is simply how one handles that experience, and clearly some people who feel anxiety or fear within them will panic and dwell upon it and feed into the experience, producing more of it. Marijuana doesn't "exaggerate" aspects of their own experience, they do. :imslow:


--------------------

:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: Cameron]
    #8502750 - 06/09/08 08:55 AM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Honestly? Come on. It's a yes or no answer: without marijuana, would conditions allow a psychotic break in an otherwise average day?




I am sorry that you were unable to read my reply up to the end, because this question that you're posing has already been answered. I said:

Quote:

Of course, as all that marijuana did was to create a favorable medium for him to become in touch with his schizophrenic behavior. It might as well be a hit in the head, a period of crisis in his life, a serious fight with a loved one and so on.




This discussion is leading nowhere if you refuse to answer to all of my comments, choosing instead to answer to what seems favorable to you.
Marijuana can never cause schizophrenia to someone. The matter of fact is that marijuana can't cause any kind of thought or feeling to someone, since we are the ones who create these for ourselves. Stating any different is the equivalent of stating that somehow marijuana possesses a consciousness of it's own, which when smoked blends with our consciousness, hence the "sudden" modification of thoughts. :lol:
There are plenty of people who smoke marijuana, and yet, the majority of them do not become schizophrenic, even though some of them experience more or less of a paranoia. Those who indulge themselves into those aggravating emotions are more likely to experience schizophrenic episodes because of their own mind, as opposed those who will choose to focus on getting out of that situation, also generated by their own mind.
An emergent situation such as experiencing schizophrenia does not just happen all of a sudden, on a clear background. It has to have a route and go through all the degrees that takes one to go from mental stability to that particular disorder, and that's a LONG way to go, a chain of thoughts and reactions that are too elaborate to occur in just a few hours of getting stoned. :tongue:


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And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
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Offlineblunt master
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Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8503485 - 06/09/08 03:00 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

marijuana can not solely cause schizophrenia, however it worsen the symptoms of the disease and can contribute to the cause.
it wont cause the disease but it definitely seems like it has an effect on it


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: blunt master]
    #8503524 - 06/09/08 03:14 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

I never stated otherwise. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #8503663 - 06/09/08 03:56 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, you should really re-read this thread then, because that's all I was ever saying (very clearly, spelled out nice and simple several times). You guys never cease to amaze me. :sunny:

:zoolander:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: Cameron]
    #8504001 - 06/09/08 05:44 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cameron said:
Wow, you should really re-read this thread then, because that's all I was ever saying (very clearly, spelled out nice and simple several times). You guys never cease to amaze me. :sunny:

:zoolander:




Seems pretty obvious to me that you specifically used the word "cause", which would definitely suggest that, at the very least, you didn't spell it out quite as nice and simple as you would like to now suggest. :tongue:


--------------------

:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleCameron
Too Many Words
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Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: fireworks_god]
    #8504054 - 06/09/08 06:02 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I think it's very clear that marijuana is a cause (not the cause; one of many factors)




Quote:

The drug is a factor...  therefore it is a cause.




Quote:

Marijuana created the medium, so marijuana is a cause (again, not the *sole* cause, but a contributing factor).




:confused:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: Cameron]
    #8504093 - 06/09/08 06:11 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, notice all of those times you used the word "cause"? I've already directly responded to these statements, so feel free to read and respond to them. There is a difference between being a cause and being an enabling factor (read: not a cause). Correlation is not causation; providing the experience in which an individual may or may not handle the experience and subsequently begin to develop schizophrenia is not the same as causing schizophrenia. The only cause is within the person.


--------------------

:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: schizophrenia and substance abuse [Re: figmentfragment]
    #8504170 - 06/09/08 06:27 PM (4 years, 11 months ago)

haloperidol/haldol = for me, sleeping for a year.

You were on Haldol in a hospital for a year...?!:what:

I didn't think it was a long term medicine at all.  How often did they inject you??  Fuck.:(

I got an initial injection in the top of my asscheek and slept for six days.  I woke up in such a fuckin fog...  Disaster.  NOT HELP AT ALL.


“Insanity - a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.”

“Madness need not be all breakdown. It may also be break-through. It is potential liberation and renewal as well as enslavement and existential death.”

“There is no such ''condition'' as ''schizophrenia,'' but the label is a social fact and the social fact a political event.” ($)

“Creative people who can't help but explore other mental territories are at greater risk, just as someone who climbs a mountain is more at risk than someone who just walks along a village lane.”

“The experience and behavior that gets labeled schizophrenic is a special strategy that a person invents in order to live in an unlivable situation.”

“We are all in a post-hypnotic trance induced in early infancy”

“A child born today in the United Kingdom stands a ten times greater chance of being admitted to a mental hospital than to a university ... This can be taken as an indication that we are driving our children mad more effectively than we are genuinely educating them. Perhaps it is our way of educating them that is driving them mad.”
-R.D Laing, British Psychiatrist, 1927-1989


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