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 ray40cal
omnitrippint
 
Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 615
Loc: midwest side
Last seen: 1 hour, 40 minutes
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 Firearms.
#8487057 - 06/05/08 05:52 AM (2 months, 22 days ago) |
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Gun regulations. How do you feel about them? They vary from state to state. Do you believe it is constitutionally responsible to allow the citizens of the United States to carry concealed weapons if licensed to do so? I wanna get some poll counts on all your thoughts.
My thoughts: Don't infringe the rights of Americans to possess and carry firearms. The way I see it, violent criminals will always have access to firearms, and felons can't buy them legally in the first place, yet still have them (even full autos, without a class 3 license). I've been to many different schools and actually felt relatively safe in the inner city schools where students would have guns on them---- You never ever hear about some kid shooting up an inner city school, its always some suburban, rural highschool, or college. If teachers or students were allowed to possess weapons on campus via proper licensing, someone could have stopped the VA Tek killing spree. IMO more people should carry. What do you do if you're in a mall and someone starts lighting off rounds at random people? It'd be best to neutralize the threat via stopping force, lethal or not.
No matter what law is in place, even a complete firearm ban, violent criminals will always have guns and use them against good people. The reason I brought up this topic is because I heard Obama is wanting to enforce a policy banning the possession of semiautomatic handguns. This is irrational. The only people who would abide by a law like that are the ones who wouldn't use semi-automatics criminally in the first place.
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GT prints to trade
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,114
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 16 days, 6 hours
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Re: Firearms. [Re: ray40cal]
#8487677 - 06/05/08 09:50 AM (2 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
ray40cal said:
I've been to many different schools and actually felt relatively safe in the inner city schools where students would have guns on them----
I'm not so sure the students that go to school there feel that way
Quote:
You never ever hear about some kid shooting up an inner city school,
You do where I live.
Quote:
What do you do if you're in a mall and someone starts lighting off rounds at random people?
I run my ass the fuck out of there like and hope I don't catch a bullet in the back.
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 3,944
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 4 hours, 22 minutes
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
Quote:
What do you do if you're in a mall and someone starts lighting off rounds at random people?
I run my ass the fuck out of there like and hope I don't catch a bullet in the back.
In a better world, someone with some training and practice would draw a perfectly legal, registered .45 sidearm and put 2 in the emo fucktard that's ruining people's day.
It sounds scary, but if the general populace carried concealed weapons like cellphones, criminals would have to get real jobs and suicidal attention whores might think twice about bringing a rifle to the mall.
Handguns shouldn't be so mystical... They are just tools that require greater responsibility. 
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MEET BOB
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,114
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 16 days, 6 hours
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Quote:
RoosterCogburn said:
In a better world, someone with some training and practice would draw a perfectly legal, registered .45 sidearm and put 2 in the emo fucktard that's ruining people's day.
In a better world, I could go shopping for sneakers without even thinking about the possibility of a stranger trying to shoot at me. We live in a shitty world, and we could speculate all day about what would make it a better one. While I am not oppossed to gun ownership, I am skeptical that things would be more peaceful if more people carried guns around.
Quote:
It sounds scary, but if the general populace carried concealed weapons like cellphones, criminals would have to get real jobs and suicidal attention whores might think twice about bringing a rifle to the mall.
Again, this is idle speculation. What do you base it on?
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 3,944
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
Last seen: 4 hours, 22 minutes
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I base it on the fact that while I am at the gunrange, surrounded by responsible gun owners, I feel safer than being at the mall. When I am with my friend who carries a weapon, I feel more secure.
The chances of someone in McDonalds going apeshit and shooting people is rare... But sadly, it's even more rare to see citizens protecting themselves against the few bad apples out there. And the reason they can't is because it's illegal.
Criminals don't obey laws.
It won't solve all crime, and it won't stop insane people from killing other people... I just hate seeing GUNS made to be evil.
Criminals should be afraid to mug me... not the other way around.
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MEET BOB
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Wiccan_Seeker
INFJcounselor-idealist
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 16,431
Loc: Virgo Supercluster (or b...
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
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ENDGAME EARTHLINGS THE CRASH COURSE MONEY AS DEBT ARITHMETIC, POPULATION & ENERGY
PiHKAL TiHKAL BEST TRIPPING MANUAL SALVIA DIVINORUM MDMA DRUG LIBRARY MEDICAL & PHARMS DATABASE
ALCOHOL DISTILLING POT GROWING SHROOMERY CULTIVATION ARCHIVE EROWID MIRROR RHODIUM ARCHIVE
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 Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 89,522
Loc: S.F.I.G.E.L.
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Quote:
RoosterCogburn said:
In a better world, someone with some training and practice would draw a perfectly legal, registered .45 sidearm and put 2 in the emo fucktard that's ruining people's day.
welcome to a better world
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NZrdbSJVSVM
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"Dr. Niglet, our buttsecks last night was lovely please call me when you read this"
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,114
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 16 days, 6 hours
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
RoosterCogburn said:
In a better world, someone with some training and practice would draw a perfectly legal, registered .45 sidearm and put 2 in the emo fucktard that's ruining people's day.
welcome to a better world
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NZrdbSJVSVM
What. The. Fuck.
If that woman holding the baby had gotten startled and shifted in the wrong direction, that "hero" would have blown a baby's head clear off. Fuck that shit. I can't believe you consider this responsible gun use. The gun was less than a foot away from a baby's head when that dude started firing it. To protect a cash register? Fuck that asshole. If you are trying to prove that more people should own guns because it keeps us safe you have FAILED.
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 5,799
Loc: Americas
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Seemed fine to me. Both guns were very close. Its harder to miss when your close 
I'd rather have had the clerks gun shot very close than the bad guys.
Hopefully the guy would have taken the money and ran, but you never know.
Show a gun and demand money, get shot by robees= justice
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 89,522
Loc: S.F.I.G.E.L.
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
If that woman holding the baby had gotten startled and shifted in the wrong direction, that "hero" would have blown a baby's head clear off. Fuck that shit.
yeah, typical response of everyone is to jump into the line of
fire when they see the act in progress, boy I hope you're never
in that situation but if you ever are is there some place I
should send the flowers?
Quote:
The gun was less than a foot away from a baby's head when that dude started firing it. To protect a cash register? Fuck that asshole. If you are trying to prove that more people should own guns because it keeps us safe you have FAILED.
yep... a foot away, a man with a gun and a mask was also about
the same distance and he had intentions of committing at least
one crime, what's to say there wouldnt have been 4 homocides in
addition to the robbery, it's in the news every day "robbery/homocide"
seriously, at point blank range he did a fine job, he didnt even
break the glass in the door, in a panic situation like that each
of his shots hit his target, the man may very well have saved
that babys life so guess what he was thinking of the children
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"Dr. Niglet, our buttsecks last night was lovely please call me when you read this"
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 5,872
Loc: The Union
Last seen: 1 hour, 43 minutes
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
<img src=http://www.pinkpistols.org/images/splash3.jpg>
 thats pretty good. 
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Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,114
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 16 days, 6 hours
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
yeah, typical response of everyone is to jump into the line of
fire when they see the act in progress,
Could have easily happened. Very easily. You're a mother holding your baby and all of a sudden people whip out guns and start firing. I'm not saying you would jump in the line of fire but when the margin of error is less than 12 inches and no one has time to think...Could have EASILY happened.
Quote:
boy I hope you're never
in that situation but if you ever are is there some place I
should send the flowers?
If it happens to me I hope it convinces more people that "guns kill people" Let them fly a banner over my grave that has a gun with a big red X over it. Let my tombstone read "should have moved to the Alps when he had the chance."
Quote:
yep... a foot away, a man with a gun and a mask was also about
the same distance and he had intentions of committing at least
one crime, what's to say there wouldnt have been 4 homocides in
addition to the robbery, it's in the news every day "robbery/homocide"
This is also a good point. I wasn't there, and all I know is what I saw, and what I saw was a guy firing a gun next to a baby's head. Apparently to protect a cash register. Perhaps it was apparent to the man firing the gun that the robber was about to start shooting people. In which case yes he did a good job. And I don't have any sympathy for the armed robber either. That's not my point. All I know is that if you are trying to convince people that guns make the world more safe this video did not convince me.
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 5,799
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
Quote:
yep... a foot away, a man with a gun and a mask was also about
the same distance and he had intentions of committing at least
one crime, what's to say there wouldnt have been 4 homocides in
addition to the robbery, it's in the news every day "robbery/homocide"
This is also a good point. I wasn't there, and all I know is what I saw, and what I saw was a guy firing a gun next to a baby's head. Apparently to protect a cash register. Perhaps it was apparent to the man firing the gun that the robber was about to start shooting people. In which case yes he did a good job. And I don't have any sympathy for the armed robber either. That's not my point. All I know is that if you are trying to convince people that guns make the world more safe this video did not convince me.
Yeah, I think guns definatly lead to more violence, and it would be good if we can get rid of them.
2 things:
2nd amendment and freedom coucel against this approach
We can't get rid of guns as they can be made from scratch and their are plenty everywhere, so how about we just allow people to protect themselves how they wish?
As for analyzing the guys actions: You seem to be aware that its a stressful situation. All I'm saying is that before you condemn someone like this you should be damn sure his actions were unreasonable. I don't think taking a clear shot at an armed man is manifestly unreasonable, so he should not be handeled by the law.
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 6,474
Last seen: 3 hours, 58 minutes
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because of the angle of the camera shot, it appears the baby was much closer to the action than I think it actually was..
and I'm sure the kid wasn't pleased with how loud it was but there's really no way the baby was in any danger
that's as ridiculous as the claim made in the Heller case by DC that handguns are unfit for use as personal protection because in those situations one's hands would be shaking too badly to hold a pistol and you'd shoot bystanders.
completely idiotic and in no way based in reality
that guy's aim would have had to be a full 45 degrees wrong (or more) to hit that kid.... that does not happen, period
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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.
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Chemy
Polluting Your Mind With Facts
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,380
Loc: K-Town, North Lawndale
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
While I am not oppossed to gun ownership, I am skeptical that things would be more peaceful if more people carried guns around.
More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws
Please read this book.
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“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them". -Ayn Rand
“Useless laws weaken the necessary laws.”
-Montesquieu, 1748
The thesis that I want to advance today is that the drug war and the laws that prohibit the private consumption of certain drugs are unconstitutional. Prohibition laws, themselves, violate every tenet of limited government that is embodied in our Constitution.
http://www.paulhager.org/libertarian/drug_con.html
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 15,406
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 22 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: Firearms. [Re: johnm214]
#8493558 - 06/06/08 05:16 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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> Yeah, I think guns definatly lead to more violence, and it would be good if we can get rid of them.
I disagree. Guns enable violence of a greater magnitude, but violence will happen regardless of a gun being present. In theory, it would be good if we were rid of guns, but in reality we cannot keep guns away from bad people, thus our only option is to try and level the playing field by ensuring that everybody (sane) has access to a gun.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 5,799
Loc: Americas
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Re: Firearms. [Re: Seuss]
#8493707 - 06/06/08 06:02 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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eh, magnitude of violence is what I meant
I agree with your conclusions, but guns still cause more violence imo.
THe problem w/ the national debate on this shit is that nobody wants to talk about the second amendment, must be that long confusing legal language it uses, or whether the govenrment should prevent people not known to be dangerous from having a gun.
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Chemy
Polluting Your Mind With Facts
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,380
Loc: K-Town, North Lawndale
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Re: Firearms. [Re: johnm214]
#8493784 - 06/06/08 06:21 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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With greater gun control brings as a consequence more crime.
We have laws in place to keep guns out of the hands of psychotics and convicted felons, those laws need to be enforced, not pass more laws that are arbitrarily enforced and/or infringe on law abiding citizens rights. And that is exactly what those fear-mongers want, to decrease our rights, NOT make us any safer, fuck them and fuck anyone who is so scared shitless as to infringe freedoms in exchange for feeling safer while being put in more danger through their own ignorance.
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“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them". -Ayn Rand
“Useless laws weaken the necessary laws.”
-Montesquieu, 1748
The thesis that I want to advance today is that the drug war and the laws that prohibit the private consumption of certain drugs are unconstitutional. Prohibition laws, themselves, violate every tenet of limited government that is embodied in our Constitution.
http://www.paulhager.org/libertarian/drug_con.html
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Chemy
Polluting Your Mind With Facts
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,380
Loc: K-Town, North Lawndale
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Re: Firearms. [Re: Chemy]
#8493832 - 06/06/08 06:36 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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This is what fear-mongers hate, this Elizabeth Edwards, a rabid gun-control nut fears armed law abiding citizens:
Quote:
RALEIGH –Elizabeth Edwards says she is scared of the “rabid, rabid Republican” who owns property across the street from her Orange County home — and she doesn’t want her kids going near the gun-toting neighbor.
Edwards, the wife of Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, particularly recalls the time neighbor Monty Johnson brought out a gun while chasing workers investigating a right of way near his property. The Edwards family has yet to meet Johnson in person.
“I wouldn’t be nice to him, anyway,” Edwards said in an interview. “I don’t want my kids anywhere near some guy who, when he doesn’t like somebody, the first thing he does is pull a gun out. It scares the business out of me.”
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“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them". -Ayn Rand
“Useless laws weaken the necessary laws.”
-Montesquieu, 1748
The thesis that I want to advance today is that the drug war and the laws that prohibit the private consumption of certain drugs are unconstitutional. Prohibition laws, themselves, violate every tenet of limited government that is embodied in our Constitution.
http://www.paulhager.org/libertarian/drug_con.html
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 5,799
Loc: Americas
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Re: Firearms. [Re: Chemy]
#8493919 - 06/06/08 07:03 PM (2 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said:
With greater gun control brings as a consequence more crime.
We have laws in place to keep guns out of the hands of psychotics and convicted felons, those laws need to be enforced, not pass more laws that are arbitrarily enforced and/or infringe on law abiding citizens rights. And that is exactly what those fear-mongers want, to decrease our rights, NOT make us any safer, fuck them and fuck anyone who is so scared shitless as to infringe freedoms in exchange for feeling safer while being put in more danger through their own ignorance.
yeah, I agree this is likely. I certainly think having guns legally available helps people feel more confident and prevent some problems. I hope you didn't perceive my post above to contradict this point. I'm saying if we had no guns its likely that, at least for civilians, the integral of the magnitude times frequency of violent acts as a function of time would likely decrease.
I agree that it is implausible and repugnant to the rule of law and a free society to attempt this, and it cannot succeed, due to the relative simplicity of creating a gun and the large numbers of guns allready available. Someone w/ a lathe or some metal fabrication device can easily make a single-shot gun, which would be plenty effective if guns were illegal- nobody would have them to defend themselves.
One thing I HATE, is the dispartate standards applied to law enforcment in my state. Why does law enforcment get to carry concealed weapons when off duty without obtaining permits? Why do they get to go into bars with the gun? Why do they get to drink alcohol while having a gun? Why do regular citizens not get to enjoy these freedoms?
I'm more afraid of the police than the criminals. Maybe its a function of the area I live in, but the cops are assholes and fuck w/ people minding their own buisness. Criminals have yet to do half the shit I've had done to me by cops- all relativly minor, except for when I was takled by a cop when I was 16 for smoking a ciggerete and charged w/ assault on an officer (expunged thank got) but whatever, still the cops are worse than the crooks in my experience.
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