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 mrjim202000
barefoot andfree
Registered: 02/20/04
Posts: 265
Last seen: 2 months, 4 days
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 ummm morels?? 
#8457104 - 05/28/08 10:26 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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I was at my folks place last week and their drive way is suddenly laden with what look like morels but they are large (1.5 to 3 inch caps) and an off white color. any idea what they are??? I would not eat then from the drive way but is it worth taking a core sample and working my way up to clean fruits?! again they look like very large off white morels and they are all over, also the location is in RI.
peace
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dont tell lies, there will be less to remember
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mrjim202000
barefoot andfree
Registered: 02/20/04
Posts: 265
Last seen: 2 months, 4 days
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so now after some research I do think they are blond morels. how can I grow them clean inside. I dont want dirty mush/
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dont tell lies, there will be less to remember
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 Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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AcidHorse
No Name No Slogan
Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 653
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Edited by AcidHorse (05/29/08 03:22 PM)
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MycoAu
5thKingdomCome
Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 1,037
Last seen: 54 minutes, 36 seconds
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 Re: ummm morels?? [Re: AcidHorse]
#8459751 - 05/29/08 03:53 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't feel so bad posting that link now. I'm not the only guilty party. It really bites that there's no good way to eliminate that site.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: ummm morels?? [Re: AcidHorse]
#8459882 - 05/29/08 04:29 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
AcidHorse said:
Quote:
Senor_Hongos said:
http://www.thefarm.org/mushroom/morel.html
Good luck.
Horse crap.
That site is not accurate.
get this and read it.
http://www.mssf.org/mnews/0303mn.pdf
http://www.mssf.org/mnews/0705mn.pdf
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=1986006247&IA=WO1986006247&DISPLAY=DESC
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4594809.html
And? I have read those before. The first link gives a different cultivation method by Litchfield and the second link is by him as well. Those just give different methods than the one from The Farm. The third link is the patent which no one has successfully used but the owners of its rights.
Please notice the similarity of this section of the patent and the steps approx. 19-23 of The Farm's method.
Quote:
In the second variation, sclerotia, i.e., hardened sclerotia that have been developed in the jars, are directly inoculated into a substratum, and the additional mycelia which grow therefrom are induced to the sexual cycle, without adding nutrients.
An important aspect of the invention is induction or triggering of the fungus to the sexual growth cycle in which ascocarps are produced. One important contributing factor in induction is deprivation of available exogenous nutrients to the fungus so that assimilation and storage of nutrients by the fungus ceases or significantly slows. Accordingly, the environment of the fungus is altered from a nutrient-rich environment to a nutrient poor environment. For purposes of this invention, a "nutrient poor"" environment is an environment lacking readily available nutrients for supplying developing ascocarps, whereby the nutrients for such developing ascocarps are the nutrients which have been stored in the mycelial and attendant sclerotia prior to induction.
Another important factor which appears to contribute to induction is exposure of the fungus to high quantities of water in the substratum in which the fungus is growing. Typically, the substratum is hydrated substantially to saturation for the purpose of promoting induction of nutrient-rich mycelia and attendant sclerotia to the sexual cycle. By substantially saturated is meant at least about 90% of the capacity of the substratum, but preferably approaching 100% capacity. Preferably, during exposure to high quantities of water, there is a continuous exchange of water. This may be accomplished, for example, by percolating water through the substratum in which the fungus is growing. Although Applicants are not bound to any theory as to why the high level of water seems to promote induction, the water may provide a triggering "shock" to the system, e.g., by change in osmotic pressure.
How can you say with certainty this method doesn't work?
Your thoughts?
Edited by Senor_Hongos (05/29/08 07:00 PM)
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AcidHorse
No Name No Slogan
Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 653
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Quote:
Senor_Hongos said:
Quote:
AcidHorse said:
Quote:
Senor_Hongos said:
http://www.thefarm.org/mushroom/morel.html
Good luck.
Horse crap.
That site is not accurate.
get this and read it.
http://www.mssf.org/mnews/0303mn.pdf
http://www.mssf.org/mnews/0705mn.pdf
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=1986006247&IA=WO1986006247&DISPLAY=DESC
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4594809.html
And? I have read those before. The first link gives a different cultivation method by Litchfield and the second link is by him as well. Those just give different methods than the one from The Farm. The third link is the patent which no one has successfully used but the owners of its rights.
Please notice the similarity of this section of the patent and the steps approx. 19-23 of The Farm's method.
Quote:
In the second variation, sclerotia, i.e., hardened sclerotia that have been developed in the jars, are directly inoculated into a substratum, and the additional mycelia which grow therefrom are induced to the sexual cycle, without adding nutrients.
An important aspect of the invention is induction or triggering of the fungus to the sexual growth cycle in which ascocarps are produced. One important contributing factor in induction is deprivation of available exogenous nutrients to the fungus so that assimilation and storage of nutrients by the fungus ceases or significantly slows. Accordingly, the environment of the fungus is altered from a nutrient-rich environment to a nutrient poor environment. For purposes of this invention, a "nutrient poor"" environment is an environment lacking readily available nutrients for supplying developing ascocarps, whereby the nutrients for such developing ascocarps are the nutrients which have been stored in the mycelial and attendant sclerotia prior to induction.
Another important factor which appears to contribute to induction is exposure of the fungus to high quantities of water in the substratum in which the fungus is growing. Typically, the substratum is hydrated substantially to saturation for the purpose of promoting induction of nutrient-rich mycelia and attendant sclerotia to the sexual cycle. By substantially saturated is meant at least about 90% of the capacity of the substratum, but preferably approaching 100% capacity. Preferably, during exposure to high quantities of water, there is a continuous exchange of water. This may be accomplished, for example, by percolating water through the substratum in which the fungus is growing. Although Applicants are not bound to any theory as to why the high level of water seems to promote induction, the water may provide a triggering "shock" to the system, e.g., by change in osmotic pressure.
How can you say with certainty this method doesn't work?
Your thoughts?
For One,
1) The Farm or G. Trager used the patent as an outline to describe a flawed method.
2) The Farm's or G. Trager's description could work if some things were described differently or omitted(i.e.)
"Hang the mushroom by the paperclip over a freshly prepared petri dish. Petris, agar mix and agar preparation instructions can be ordered from " while using the photo shot from the Scientific American PBS episode on growing morels, with Gary Mills there.
FACT: morels from the woods carry spores that have been picked up from off the wind, they act like filters plus they are fed upon by predatory molds in the soil.
FACT: morels can be infected with a predatory mold that is growing with asexual mold spores ready to fall off.
FACT: hanging a morel over a petri dish is meaningless. Just sit back and wait for the mold to grow.
3) "How can you say with certainty this method doesn't work?", duh.
the PBS special was like I said horse crap. I have a more elegant English word to describe it, but I can only pronounce it, not spell it.
That show's purpose was only to fool you, and mislead you.
"How can you say with certainty this method doesn't work?",
I had 50 cent piece sized sclerotia growing in my mason jars, right now its a layer. Using my method, which is based on the "actual way" the patent hints to, but I still think I may have stumbled on to a different tech for it.
The substrate is almost completely reddish-orange and looks solid.
I've tried the farm method in the past somewhat, but stayed with the patent method.
Stayed with the patent and kept making the same mistake, I then recalled an idea I had
from way back in 1986 about the time Discover Magazine posted the article. I used my
protocol and sure enough my first assumption was correct.
Wish I hadn't kept screwing around with "exactly-like" the patent.
Took 3 years recently.
And finally got the sclerotia the way I had described previously on this site. Solid. Large. Baseball sized.
Although baseball sized is just a circumstantial situation, I got a layer right now.
On this site I mentioned I had found some softball sized sclerotia that a huge morel was growing from, and that its consistency was like that of dried rubber cement, I'd like to add to that: like the stipe tissue, spongy and like solidified rubber cement (avoid the verb "dry"), enmeshed with the soil.
Also in addition to this, The Farm site states:
"This technique was developed by mycologist Gary Mills after much trial and error, and observations of morels growing in nature. What follows is a sequence which Gary demonstrated for the PBS series, Scientific American Frontiers. The temperature, humidity, substrate and other detailed parameters were placed in the public domain by George Robert Trager "
This technique was developed by Ronald Ower of San Francisco in his home.
For whom the patent was given to and issued to.
And who the hell is George Robert Trager. And who the hell is Gary Novak?
And who the hell is Gary Mills to steal Ronald Ower's credit?
Ask yourself these questions.
Here's some more comedy from The Farm for you:
"Let the morel drip its spores onto the petri plate as you gently work it with your fingers. If you don't see spores falling, just leave the mushroom hanging over the agar"
LOL what the hell is he trying to do? give it an erection?
if you don't see contaminates falling just give it a little time and it will be green,
sounds more like an STD.
"Shake the jar to thoroughly mix in the mycelium. Place the jar in a cool (68 - 71°F), dark place for approximately 4 - 6 weeks. Good growth will be indicated by whitish strands of mycelium growing through the medium. At about 5 weeks, small aggregates of white to rust colored mycelia scerotia will form. "
Sheesh, it took them that long? It only took 2 weeks for sclerotial initials to show up for me.
And another thing:
“You have to learn to think like a mushroom,” Berglund said. ”That’s what Gary’s done.”
I disagree, in the sense that Ronald Ower was the one who had first learned to think like a morel and Berglund was trying to imply that Gary was the first who had learned to think like a morel which is wrong of him to imply.
So effectively it must be known, Gary Mills hadn't "done it" actually Ronald Ower had "done it".
http://newsroom.msu.edu/site/indexer/2552/content.htm
http://newsbulletin.msu.edu/oct2705/mushrooms.html
I've also noticed a strange anomaly:
When you google for the phrase (in quotes) [ "That's what Gary's done" ] there are no results
yet if you google for [ "That' s what Gary's done" ] or [ "That*s what Gary's done" ]
you get the results for the page.
Mushroom farming is not for the faint of heart. It’s been an elusive industry for most – especially for the morels. Mills and Berglund note there isn’t much room for the casual cottage industry of mushrooming. The strains must be carefully isolated and screened. Since mushrooms are only briefly in season in the wild, it takes particular strains that can withstand the rigors of quick propagation. Conditions – humidity, temperature, light, nutrients – must be precise. “You have to learn to think like a mushroom,” Berglund said. ”That’s what Gary’s done.”
No! That's what Ronald did!
Ah yes! I sigh, and remember what Nancy Smith Weber said, "Anything is fair game for them".
~ A Morel Hunter's Companion: A Guide to True and False Morels
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/qwork/4466390/used/A%20Morel%20Hunter's%20Companion:%20A%20Guide%20to%20True%20and%20False%20Morels
Edited by AcidHorse (05/30/08 06:20 PM)
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: ummm morels?? [Re: AcidHorse]
#8464313 - 05/30/08 06:20 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thank you for that incredibly detailed and wonderfully educational post.
I certainly wish the ultimate luck on your tek. It would be nice if someone else had a little success.
I've seen pictures of old timers fruiting morels in erlenmeyer flasks, but I never did pursue how they did it. I've tried several methods, indoors and out, even getting decent-sized sclerotia, but I was never able to produce fruit.
Thanks again and good luck.
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AcidHorse
No Name No Slogan
Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 653
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Quote:
Senor_Hongos said:
Thank you for that incredibly detailed and wonderfully educational post.
I certainly wish the ultimate luck on your tek. It would be nice if someone else had a little success.
I've seen pictures of old timers fruiting morels in erlenmeyer flasks, but I never did pursue how they did it. I've tried several methods, indoors and out, even getting decent-sized sclerotia, but I was never able to produce fruit.
Thanks again and good luck.
LOL, dude I'm not a pump or a faucet and you won't get water from me.
Luck? Dude I came across these results I have that are certain, just this year. In March.
Luck? No my friend, it is faith. The dictionary definition.
"It would be nice if someone else had a little success"
The Lump ( 1/4 inch )
  
The lump is absolutely solid, a solid mass. Not a fuzzy thing of loose hyphae.
Where it is attached to the agar, right at that circumference, its like the formation of morel stem bases.
That trunk pattern of growth.
Like this:
Underneath the lump
But I bet you'd rather have something like this
http://store.freshmorels.com/shopimages/sections/thumbnails/baby%20morel.jpg
So what do you want me to do? Feed you the mushroom now? Put a bib on you and feed you?
"It would be nice if someone else had a little success"
Actually I do, and not even in the environment or conditions I haved described.
My agar nutrients ran out and it started to fruit, but since I don't plan on trying to get it to fruit completely because 1) no setup for air flow and cool temps, I'll just work on things when its cooler.
its up to mid 80s right now, and air conditioning and electricity isn't cheap. remember? the screw ball arabs want to puke some BS that they can't supply us with more oil, yet they secretly are rubbing elbows with the communists. They are fools.
Edited by AcidHorse (05/30/08 08:37 PM)
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AcidHorse
No Name No Slogan
Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 653
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Quote:
Senor_Hongos said:
Thank you for that incredibly detailed and wonderfully educational post.
I certainly wish the ultimate luck on your tek. It would be nice if someone else had a little success.
I've seen pictures of old timers fruiting morels in erlenmeyer flasks, but I never did pursue how they did it. I've tried several methods, indoors and out, even getting decent-sized sclerotia, but I was never able to produce fruit.
Thanks again and good luck.
Are you so sure that you had sclerotia?
How can you be so sure?
What were you growing them on?
Was it nutrient poor?
Still decent sized sclerotia?
How are you sure they were sclerotia?
Main Entry: sub·strate
Pronunciation: \ˈsəb-ˌstrāt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Medieval Latin substratum
Date: 1807
1 : substratum
2 : the base on which an organism lives. i.e. <the soil is the substrate of most seed plants>
3 : a substance acted upon (as by an enzyme)
Hmmm I don't see any other words in its definition.
Main Entry: sub·stra·tum
Pronunciation: \ˈsəb-ˌstrā-təm, -ˌstra-, ˌsəb-ˈ\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural sub·stra·ta \-tə\
Etymology: Medieval Latin, from Latin, neuter of substratus, past participle of substernere to spread under, from sub- + sternere to spread — more at strew
Date: 1631
: an underlying support : foundation: as a: substance that is a permanent subject of qualities or phenomena b: the material of which something is made and from which it derives its special qualities c: a layer beneath the surface soil;
Hmmm don't see any specific nouns or types in its definition there as well.
Now, what were you saying about growing sclerotia?
Where did you grow them?
Eh?
Main Entry: sub·soil
Pronunciation: \ˈsəb-ˌsȯi(-ə)l\
Function: noun
Date: 1796
: the stratum of weathered material that underlies the surface soil
hmmmm
Main Entry: soil
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, soil, piece of land, from Vulgar Latin *solium, alteration of Latin solea sole, sandal, foundation timber — more at sole
Date: 14th century
1: firm land : earth
2 a: the upper layer of earth that may be dug or plowed and in which plants grow b: the superficial unconsolidated and usually weathered part of the mantle of a planet and especially of the earth
3: country, land <our native soil>
4: the agricultural life or calling
5: a medium in which something takes hold and develops
hmmmmm yet no definite composition here as well.
Edited by AcidHorse (05/30/08 08:50 PM)
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AcidHorse
No Name No Slogan
Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 653
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Yeah I didn't use a pyrex erlenmeyer flask, I used a sealable pyrex bowl.
And that agar culture is over a year old and still growing? I hope it does but
its getting beyond 71.6°F and 86°F is here.
That is 22°C and 30°C
and is 295.15 K and 303.15 K
and is 531.27°R and 545.67°R
time to refrigerate for a little time, and a little warmup, and a little chill, ... and some clean air flow.
Its damn screwy, I told some other members it would be screwed up if I got morels to grow, and yet
I couldn't get shiitake or oyster to grow. I mean its weird.
Oyster is a mystery, and I think trichoderma is a really bad presence for them. hard to get rid of.
And shiitake? I think that shiznit went bust. I didn't get results like photos and micro-myco-shots.
So it leaves me with the theory that it was a contam, yet it had a rusty tan color browning? and ...hmmm no green.
Need to look into those when I'm not busy with these damn morels!
And another thing, I hate those damn fungus gnats! gnats in general! They are like magnetized to the scent! Its like "hey I'm trying to grow something here and whelp here comes Mr Gnat strolling on by".
WHACK! I clap him!
Its almost hopeless to do anything in the summertime, almost forced to wait til winter, and yet that's still not a guarantee.
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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony
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Edited by AcidHorse (05/31/08 01:52 AM)
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: ummm morels?? [Re: AcidHorse]
#8466241 - 05/31/08 02:55 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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 Wow, very impressive!
The sclerotia I grew were nickle-sized in rye berries in mason jars that I used for innoculating a bed which never fruited as far as I know. My guess was too little rain or incorrect fruiting parameters. This was over six years ago and I didn't take any notes. I am pretty sure, not positive, that I grew them from the clone.
Weird things happen in the lab though. (NOT implying anything about morels) One time I grew hyphal knots of Amanita virosa in a petri dish. I called Paul Stamets about it, but never pursued it. I did take pictures of those though. They are stored on analog video tape.
That's too funny about having little success with shiitake or oyster and that much success with morels!
I don't give a damn if you can't grow cubes, as long as you get a method for growing morels in artifical conditions. Fame, money and fortune (and I get to tell people, "Hey, I talked to that guy when he was doing it!").
Faith, luck, persistance, hard work, call it what you will, I hope you really make it.
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greys
Mushroom Dork
Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 37,370
Loc: nunya
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i have dried M. rufobrunnea specimens if either of you would like to try re animating some on agar. I believe this to be the species you see growing in culture in pictures.
pm me if you would like a couple dried specimens- ive sent some already to a few people here.
great thread btw and keep working on the morel "problem" guys. its really encouraging to see a few fearless experimenters havent given up.
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AcidHorse
No Name No Slogan
Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 653
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Quote:
Senor_Hongos said:
Wow, very impressive!
The sclerotia I grew were nickle-sized in rye berries in mason jars that I used for innoculating a bed which never fruited as far as I know. My guess was too little rain or incorrect fruiting parameters. This was over six years ago and I didn't take any notes. I am pretty sure, not positive, that I grew them from the clone.
Weird things happen in the lab though. (NOT implying anything about morels) One time I grew hyphal knots of Amanita virosa in a petri dish. I called Paul Stamets about it, but never pursued it. I did take pictures of those though. They are stored on analog video tape.
That's too funny about having little success with shiitake or oyster and that much success with morels!
I don't give a damn if you can't grow cubes, as long as you get a method for growing morels in artifical conditions. Fame, money and fortune (and I get to tell people, "Hey, I talked to that guy when he was doing it!").
Faith, luck, persistance, hard work, call it what you will, I hope you really make it.
I focused only on morels in my life, never gave Basidiomycota any consideration. Plus I started researching them back in 1984/1986 - 1989, took a long break, checked em out again off and on, then in 2005 went back at it. I should have stayed faithful to my original assumption.
I look at it like this:
I have a better understanding of Ascomycota but not completely, yet enough to cover the morels. Since these were the holy grail. [;) Indiana Jones] So I'm on that side of the phyla or kingdom. I have a slight interest in claviceps purpurea, but thats dangerous. LOL hehe. But I like pretty colors! All in all, I'm a PC user and those who are majored in Basidiomycota are Mac users. LOL.
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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony
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Edited by AcidHorse (05/31/08 10:54 PM)
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: ummm morels?? [Re: AcidHorse]
#8472483 - 06/01/08 11:01 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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No sense looking back and regreting. I'd say you have a far above average knowledge of morels. Some of us are interested in many types of fungus. I prefer gilled mushrooms over most other types with the exception of morels.
I worked with a research group on the artificial cultivation of morels in the mid-eighties myself, but we never really went anywhere. Contamination literally ate us alive and we just gave up. Then Neogen got the patent and that was that.
I often wonder what is the missing factor or factors and why no one else can seem to grow them.
Polypores, I just don't care anything for them, even the edibles.
It takes a special person to pursue and pursue and pursue something with a laser beam like focus. Somehow I suspect that is the critical key to unlocking the secret of artificial morel cultivation.
I'm selfish; I'll admit it. I really want someone to "crack the code" so I can get cheaper and easier morels! I just love to eat them.
Crack the code, AcidHorse. Someone has to and it might as well be YOU! LOL 
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AcidHorse
No Name No Slogan
Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 653
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Quote:
Senor_Hongos said:
No sense looking back and regreting. I'd say you have a far above average knowledge of morels. Some of us are interested in many types of fungus. I prefer gilled mushrooms over most other types with the exception of morels.
I worked with a research group on the artificial cultivation of morels in the mid-eighties myself, but we never really went anywhere. Contamination literally ate us alive and we just gave up. Then Neogen got the patent and that was that.
I often wonder what is the missing factor or factors and why no one else can seem to grow them.
Polypores, I just don't care anything for them, even the edibles.
It takes a special person to pursue and pursue and pursue something with a laser beam like focus. Somehow I suspect that is the critical key to unlocking the secret of artificial morel cultivation.
I'm selfish; I'll admit it. I really want someone to "crack the code" so I can get cheaper and easier morels! I just love to eat them.
Crack the code, AcidHorse. Someone has to and it might as well be YOU! LOL
Currently I have to worry about vindicating my name and being aquitted of a charge and or conviction I was wrongfully accused of. I was jumped by 2 hispanic males at a Perkins back in 1999 and the officer that arrived on the scene (whom I had known previously) ; who had maliciousness and intent to cause harm to me and my reputation, proceeded to give me a ticket for "Fighting in a public place". And when the witnesses offered me their services, the officer ran them off and told them to leave.
I'm trying to find a way to fight back and have no clue how to do it without spending 100s of 1000s of dollars. Plus I've been told that its beyond the statutes of limitations, like 2 years is the limit.
I'm planning on informing his superior about what happened and the local newspaper.
Somehow my ticket managed to get payed, and now I have a misdemeanor on my record.
I could figure something out as out of this world as morels, but I couldn't protect myself from a man with a badge who operated outside of the law which he was sworn to uphold.
Besides, I've seen hints that some other people out there on the net know exactly what I've found out.
And if that site freshmorels.com is doing it, obviously they know as well.
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If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse, if you wanna ride, ride the white pony
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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Re: ummm morels?? [Re: AcidHorse]
#8492988 - 06/06/08 04:44 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sorry to hear about your run-in with the cops and sorry it took so long to reply.
Thanks for sharing.
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grxht
Stranger
Registered: 04/30/09
Posts: 1
Last seen: 4 years, 22 days
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I got a google alert that my name came up, alerting me to this rather sore spot here, so allow me to set the record a little bit less crooked at least.
In answer to the perfectly rational query "who the hell is George Robert Trager?" I am this person you cast aspersions towards.
I can tell you how my name got mixed up in all of this and you can then at least know the story. I don't really care where you go from there, because your mind is already made up.
A little history here:
Way back when, back in the 80's at some point, I saw an ad for a mushroom cultivation class taught by FRED STEVENS at the San Francisco Mycological Society. Well, being young and impressionable, I thought to myself that it would be a great idea to learn a new skill. After all, I'd been enjoying eating mushrooms of various kinds for years and years, but the ones I really enjoyed were more expensive...so why not learn how to grow some choice edibles?
I took Fred's class and found that, in part due to my training in microbiology, it was fairly easy stuff. Fred was generous with advice and protocols and he was happy to share spores and mycelia. So in short order, we progressed from Oysters and Shiitakes to the more exotic stuff, such as Agaricus and "others" that required "casing" to fruit. It was easy and fun, and before long I'd converted the living room of my rented slum apartment in Oakland into a small grow room and had a half dozen species under cultivation. Towards the end of the class, Fred passed around a mimeographed protocol for Morel cultivation and a small soda bottle of Morchella mycelium. He claimed it worked if you got it right. I took it home and dug into the protocol.
After some messing around, I eventually was able to reproduce what FRED STEVENS claimed to have done. I got some small morels, about a half dozen little itty bitty ascocarps and declared success. In the end, I decided that it was really too much work and the yield really sucked. So that was about the end of that.
A few years later, while trolling around on USENET (anyone remember that?) I stumbled across a mycology newsgroup (alt.sci.mycology or something like that) and somewhere along the line ended up in a brief back and forth with someone who was interested in morel cultivation. Long story short, I mentioned that FRED STEVENS had given me a protocol and offered to pass it along. The mimeo was in pretty bad shape, but I scanned it in and OCR'd it, cleaned it up a bit for readability, and passed it on essentially verbatim to the USENET group. My message had a preface that I was just the messenger and that if anyone cared where it came from, FRED STEVENS was your guy.
Now I suppose one can pick nits over whether USENET is more public domain than a classroom, especially back in the late 80's, when very few people actually went "there," though information, like your post, seems to last forever, whereas class materials don't last quite as long on paper. I don't recall any disclosure in the class that this was privileged or proprietary information. The patent had already been filed at that point, so the information was already in the public domain. People are, by nature lazy, and tend to want to jump to conclusions, so I'm going to guess that when the newsgroup posting got passed around, my name stuck and everyone forgot FRED STEVENS.
I hope that clears it up, at least for you. I'm not about to go on some paranoid campaign to track down every website that has propagated this minor falsehood, so this will have to do.
I agree that the method has some flaws, which if a competent mycologist cared to address could be easily remedied. As originally reported, it did work (for me anyhow), but as I said, not spectacularly, your success may vary. For me, I have found that picking them myself in the wild, or buying them in the store is equally rewarding, and a lot less time consuming.
Good luck in the rest of your life. Peace.
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Mephistophelian
Quasi Hob-Nobbery
Registered: 08/14/08
Posts: 2,509
Loc: Camp Crystal Lake
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Re: ummm morels?? [Re: grxht]
#10261719 - 04/30/09 12:40 PM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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That was awesome to read. Very interesting to see something like that pop up on here....
 loved it!
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nw_shroomy
NoN-stranger
Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 1,332
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Re: ummm morels?? [Re: grxht]
#10261772 - 04/30/09 12:50 PM (4 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
grxht said:
I got a google alert that my name came up, alerting me to this rather sore spot here, so allow me to set the record a little bit less crooked at least.
In answer to the perfectly rational query "who the hell is George Robert Trager?" I am this person you cast aspersions towards.
I can tell you how my name got mixed up in all of this and you can then at least know the story. I don't really care where you go from there, because your mind is already made up.
A little history here:
Way back when, back in the 80's at some point, I saw an ad for a mushroom cultivation class taught by FRED STEVENS at the San Francisco Mycological Society. Well, being young and impressionable, I thought to myself that it would be a great idea to learn a new skill. After all, I'd been enjoying eating mushrooms of various kinds for years and years, but the ones I really enjoyed were more expensive...so why not learn how to grow some choice edibles?
I took Fred's class and found that, in part due to my training in microbiology, it was fairly easy stuff. Fred was generous with advice and protocols and he was happy to share spores and mycelia. So in short order, we progressed from Oysters and Shiitakes to the more exotic stuff, such as Agaricus and "others" that required "casing" to fruit. It was easy and fun, and before long I'd converted the living room of my rented slum apartment in Oakland into a small grow room and had a half dozen species under cultivation. Towards the end of the class, Fred passed around a mimeographed protocol for Morel cultivation and a small soda bottle of Morchella mycelium. He claimed it worked if you got it right. I took it home and dug into the protocol.
After some messing around, I eventually was able to reproduce what FRED STEVENS claimed to have done. I got some small morels, about a half dozen little itty bitty ascocarps and declared success. In the end, I decided that it was really too much work and the yield really sucked. So that was about the end of that.
A few years later, while trolling around on USENET (anyone remember that?) I stumbled across a mycology newsgroup (alt.sci.mycology or something like that) and somewhere along the line ended up in a brief back and forth with someone who was interested in morel cultivation. Long story short, I mentioned that FRED STEVENS had given me a protocol and offered to pass it along. The mimeo was in pretty bad shape, but I scanned it in and OCR'd it, cleaned it up a bit for readability, and passed it on essentially verbatim to the USENET group. My message had a preface that I was just the messenger and that if anyone cared where it came from, FRED STEVENS was your guy.
Now I suppose one can pick nits over whether USENET is more public domain than a classroom, especially back in the late 80's, when very few people actually went "there," though information, like your post, seems to last forever, whereas class materials don't last quite as long on paper. I don't recall any disclosure in the class that this was privileged or proprietary information. The patent had already been filed at that point, so the information was already in the public domain. People are, by nature lazy, and tend to want to jump to conclusions, so I'm going to guess that when the newsgroup posting got passed around, my name stuck and everyone forgot FRED STEVENS.
I hope that clears it up, at least for you. I'm not about to go on some paranoid campaign to track down every website that has propagated this minor falsehood, so this will have to do.
I agree that the method has some flaws, which if a competent mycologist cared to address could be easily remedied. As originally reported, it did work (for me anyhow), but as I said, not spectacularly, your success may vary. For me, I have found that picking them myself in the wild, or buying them in the store is equally rewarding, and a lot less time consuming.
Good luck in the rest of your life. Peace.
[q
and what is the "Protocal"
--------------------
Spawn Ratio Calculator
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7803673#7803673
I only grow edibles.Any info I give ONLY applies to gourmet mushrooms.
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