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 c0sm0nautt
 
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,419
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 DMT: The Spirit Molecule?
#8423646 - 05/20/08 09:10 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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I'll start off by giving a brief overview of DMT, or Dimethyltryptamine. Its the strongest hallucinogen known to man, and its found in almost everything; grass, bark, toads, etc. DMT, when smoked, sends the user out of the body into a state some call "hyperspace." DMT is naturally produced in the brains pineal gland, and released in small dosages during the normal dream state. It is also released naturally in a large dosage right before the brain shuts down, which many attribute it to NDEs (near death experiences) and other mystical states.
Many who wrote on DMT and its effects believe it to be a tool which can be used to communicate with other worldly entities. The majority of users experience contact with "other dimensional entities" which Terrance McKenna described as "self-transforming machine elves." Many users also experience a form of telepathic communication with these entities who often tell the user to "not give into astonishment" of the DMT trip and to "concentrate" to induce communication.
Quite a few user testimonies of DMT trips can be read here: http://deoxy.org/hs_cehn.htm
Dr. Rick Strassman was given(after months of going through an array of bureaucracy) the ability to do DMT tests on people at the University of New Mexico. Strassman records dozens of DMT trips and finds the majority of these people come into contact with these entities from "other worlds." Strassman believes DMT to be the material connection between the material world and the larger landscape of both higher dimensions and simultaneous dimensions.
"McKenna believed DMT to be a tool that could be used to enhance communication and allow for communication with other-worldly entities. Other users report visitation from external intelligences attempting to impart information. These Machine Elf experiences are said to be shared by many DMT users." -Wikipedia
I highly recommend the book "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman for anyone interested in the science and spirituality behind psychedelics.
My question to you all is, What do you believe DMT does? Is it just an altered brain state, or is it something more?
I believe the intense visuals and geometric patterns are far to complex for the human brain to produce, and it has to be some sort of external stimuli. Ancient Shamans have used DMT and other psychedelics as part of their spirituality for centuries, it is only in these contemporary times psychedelics are misunderstood and used for mere "tripping."
I think from the evidence, a lot for studies need to be done on DMT. What do you all think?
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
  
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NastyDHL
breaking the cycles
Registered: 04/04/08
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#8423768 - 05/20/08 09:59 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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as I've never smoked DMT I have no clue as to its effects, but I've heard from friends its a crazy experience...I'd like to try it but the last time i tripped was about 6-8 months ago on lsd, pretty intense and i was getting the tremors throughout my entire body but it calmed down and the end of the trip was extraordinary...however, i'm not sure if im still in the right mindset to trip, i tried salvia a month ago and thats the last hallucinogen i've done, and i absolutely bugged...but yeah, i'd love to try DMT and experience it, but is it possible to bug out? i've heard that the trip feels more like reality than sober every day living
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,419
Loc: NY
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: NastyDHL]
#8423789 - 05/20/08 10:05 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Although you didn't respond to what I was saying in my post, I'll answer you anyway.
With any psychedelic, there is always a chance for a "bad trip" just as there is a chance for a "good trip." You can reduce that chance by doing psychedelics with loved ones and just putting yourself in a good environment(natural environments with friends are always good). If you are having second thoughts about doing psychedelics, this is your subconscious telling you not to do them. Wait until your in the right mindset, feel good, and you'll have a good time.
DMT is extremely powerful and I'd recommend extensive sh room use before trying it.
I've never done any psychedelic to this date, so I'm just talking from what I've read, not personal experience.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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 Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#8423795 - 05/20/08 10:07 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
I believe the intense visuals and geometric patterns are far to complex for the human brain to produce, and it has to be some sort of external stimuli.
Upon what do you base this belief? The human brain is, by far, the most complex and amazing mechanism of which we are aware. Flatly stating that it is incapable of producing complex images is absurd.
Yes, it is likely that the effects of DMT are due to the creation of an altered mental state. Any other explanation is unnecessarily elaborate, and therefore unlikely to be true.
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NastyDHL
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#8423803 - 05/20/08 10:10 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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haha yeah sorry about not responding to your question, I just had my own and i figured this was a good place to post it...but onto my opinion on your question...I think that if people feel a stronger sense of reality on a DMT trip than in real life, then it illustrates the belief that human's consciousness is sort of a dream state and that there are higher levels of untapped consciousness...
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,419
Loc: NY
Last seen: 13 hours, 1 minute
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: Veritas]
#8423826 - 05/20/08 10:17 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Yes, it is likely that the effects of DMT are due to the creation of an altered mental state. Any other explanation is unnecessarily elaborate, and therefore unlikely to be true.
What do you make of the encounters with "others" which appear in many DMT trips? Is this just a figment of the imagination which we all miraculously duplicate?
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#8423842 - 05/20/08 10:22 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Haven't you had extremely vivid dreams in which you encountered "others"? The mind is quite capable of imagining interactions. If you have read any of the literature on dreaming, there are common themes and images which exist across cultures. These archetypal images are why hallucinogens create similar visions in all humans.
Edited by Veritas (05/20/08 10:24 AM)
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,419
Loc: NY
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: Veritas]
#8423863 - 05/20/08 10:31 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Yes I have had extremely vivid dreams, and I believe the dream state connects us to a mass consciousness of the sort.
Humans can't survive without REM sleep and the release of low dosage DMT.
Check out Joe Rogan's views: http://youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
Edited by c0sm0nautt (05/20/08 10:32 AM)
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blewmeanie
Sativa Cyborg
Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#8423880 - 05/20/08 10:39 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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There is no evidence that the peneal gland releases DMT while you sleep, its all conjecture.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#8423886 - 05/20/08 10:41 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Joe Rogan is not a scientist, nor a neurologist. Why do you think that his uneducated opinion is the final word on this subject?
Why do dreams need to be a "connection to a mass consciousness"? This explanation is overly elaborate. As the saying goes, "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras." Why do you think zebras?
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coulterIV
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: blewmeanie]
#8423894 - 05/20/08 10:43 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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it seems that DeMeTer is the most valuable drug we have dis-covered.
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BREATHE IN LOVE
BREATHE OUT FORGIVENESS
(If you’re not in your breath, you’re in your mind)
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,419
Loc: NY
Last seen: 13 hours, 1 minute
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: Veritas]
#8423899 - 05/20/08 10:45 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Joe Rogan is far from the last say on the subject, I was simply offering his view on the subject, which you may find to be very interesting.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#8423917 - 05/20/08 10:51 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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No, I'm not interested in hearing pseudoscientific explanations from a recreational user who happens to have gained fame through a "reality" TV show. Why should his opinion matter? What about facts regarding the function of the human brain?
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: Veritas]
#8423919 - 05/20/08 10:54 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Joe Rogan is cool, though.
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Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,419
Loc: NY
Last seen: 13 hours, 1 minute
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: Veritas]
#8423925 - 05/20/08 10:58 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Well the point of me posting this thread was to induce some psuedoscientifical discussion. As I stated, not enough research was done on DMT and the research has halted since Dr. Strassman.
You are taking this position to discredit everything. Yes we know little on it. But we can work off of what we do know to get some interesting discussion.
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#8423930 - 05/20/08 11:00 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Working from what we DO know does not lead me to envision zebras, so I am not interested.  If you do not wish to debate your claims, I suggest that you ask a mod to move your thread to M&P, as that forum is expressly for discussion, with no disputation allowed.
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P&S Forum Rules
If you choose to post in this forum be prepared to have your ideas and opinions challenged, refuted, disputed, rebutted, analyzed, shredded, pooh-poohed, and yes - even supported. If having your beliefs, opinions, and positions scrutinized critically makes you uncomfortable, this is not the forum for you.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 9,419
Loc: NY
Last seen: 13 hours, 1 minute
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: Veritas]
#8423962 - 05/20/08 11:09 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Galileo and Copernicus were crazy for saying the earth revolved around the sun.
Newton was put under house arrest for his work in physics.
As I compare myself to these historical geniuses, let me say that it takes pioneers thinking outside the box for positive change to occur. 
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astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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deimya
tofu and monocle
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#8423972 - 05/20/08 11:11 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Are you willing to associate yourself with everybody and their loose kind who used this lazy claim before ?
Also, most of these "historical geniuses" actually substantiated their claims with repeatability and predictability, not through anecdotal and esoteric "evidences".
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blewmeanie
Sativa Cyborg
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#8423997 - 05/20/08 11:18 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Galileo and Copernicus were crazy for saying the earth revolved around the sun.
Newton was put under house arrest for his work in physics.
As I compare myself to these historical geniuses, let me say that it takes pioneers thinking outside the box for positive change to occur.
What original ideas have you proposed? Everything I read was practically word for work out of DMT: The spirit molecule. Think for yourself, and leave all the hippie propaganda out of this.
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The Psilonaut
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Re: DMT: The Spirit Molecule? [Re: NastyDHL]
#8424000 - 05/20/08 11:19 AM (4 years, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
NastyDHL said:
i tried salvia a month ago and thats the last hallucinogen i've done, and i absolutely bugged...
This is only my opinion of course, but salvia divinorum (20x extract, specifically) is a horrible, satanic, sadistic substance. I'm talking overheating, pins and needles, feeling like you're being crushed, intense physical discomfort. Please don't judge all psychedelics on your experience with this one, for most hallucinogens are nothing like it.
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 "Buy the ticket, take the ride" -HST
Arm yourselves with knowledge... 
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