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 Aopocetx
Writer
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 462
Last seen: 8 hours, 44 minutes
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 Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8413374 - 05/17/08 03:24 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
If you're just arguing against those folks who say they can speak with the Intergalactic Mycelial Network upon consuming five grams of mushrooms, we are on the same page. It just doesn't bother me much. 
I don't know either way whether mushrooms are sentient or not. What I don't like is how people talk about their sentience as if it's a fact. And I especially don't like the people that believe in Terrence McKenna's ideas as fact.
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Tchan909
Carpe DM
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,533
Loc: SF Bay Area
Last seen: 47 minutes, 36 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Aopocetx]
#8413392 - 05/17/08 03:28 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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And I am only troubled by people who talk about lack of sentience like it's a fact. 
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
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Aopocetx
Writer
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 462
Last seen: 8 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8413430 - 05/17/08 03:38 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
And I am only troubled by people who talk about lack of sentience like it's a fact.
A rock is not sentient. Are you troubled by that statement?
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John Smith
Solo Voyager
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 496
Last seen: 1 month, 7 days
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Aopocetx]
#8413443 - 05/17/08 03:45 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Aopocetx said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
And I am only troubled by people who talk about lack of sentience like it's a fact.
A rock is not sentient. Are you troubled by that statement?
proof please. you know, the hard, undeniable empirical facts/evidence that a rock is actually not sentient. you can neither prove that there is consciousness in a rock, nor that there isnt any, because we do not know for a fact where consciousness originates.
its not all black and white. and not all consciousness is human consciousness.
ps. dont even bother with 'consciousness originates in our brains'.
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I have no idea what I am talking about but I do know I say things you don't understand and if you do understand what I am saying then you are wrong.
Edited by John Smith (05/17/08 03:46 PM)
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John Smith
Solo Voyager
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 496
Last seen: 1 month, 7 days
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: John Smith]
#8413472 - 05/17/08 03:51 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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i feel like this will be the continuation of this thread. sort of.
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I have no idea what I am talking about but I do know I say things you don't understand and if you do understand what I am saying then you are wrong.
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Tchan909
Carpe DM
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,533
Loc: SF Bay Area
Last seen: 47 minutes, 36 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: John Smith]
#8413477 - 05/17/08 03:51 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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I'm glad someone stepped in there for me, because you cannot rationally say a rock is not sentient.
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
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Moo456
Pied_Piper
Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 647
Last seen: 40 minutes, 48 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8413620 - 05/17/08 04:36 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
I'm glad someone stepped in there for me, because you cannot rationally say a rock is not sentient.
By this logic all matter in the universe must be sentient simply because the cause and effect of energy transfer. In a way we are sentient because of cause and effect, but our consciousness is a result of inputs and outputs combined with the ability to retain information and have a change in our brain each time we experience one of these reactions and build it up into further more complex concepts.
Plants on the other hand although do respond to inputs means nothing more than a successful system of physical reactions that work in their favor of the continuation of their kind.
I dont think I explained it right, but im not sober right now.
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Tchan909
Carpe DM
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,533
Loc: SF Bay Area
Last seen: 47 minutes, 36 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Moo456]
#8413642 - 05/17/08 04:45 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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I never said anything was sentient, did I? 
Why do we all have to pretend like we know everything?
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
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Moo456
Pied_Piper
Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 647
Last seen: 40 minutes, 48 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8413659 - 05/17/08 04:51 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Well you said you cant rationally say a rock isnt sentient and I say that you can at least say that the rock by itself isnt. I never ruled out that the rock cant be a tiny part contributing to another system that is sentient.
Not to mention that there could be inconceivably small systems within the rock or anything for that matter that could be sentient.
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unretarded
Tick and poisionoak collector
Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 694
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 33 minutes, 23 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8413687 - 05/17/08 05:00 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Edited by unretarded (05/17/08 05:11 PM)
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 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 6,137
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: John Smith]
#8413823 - 05/17/08 05:52 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
John Smith said:you can neither prove that there is consciousness in a rock, nor that there isnt any
Perhaps because consciousness is not a property, but rather a level? Animals are the best example of this--it would be absurd to deny that they aren't conscious, but it's clearly of a lesser self-awareness than humans. Everything in the universe therefore "has" consciousness... it's just a matter of how much and what kind.
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the truth will set you free...
...and everything I say is true.
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future
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 408
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: truekimbo2]
#8414183 - 05/17/08 07:52 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
truekimbo2 said:
if anyone wants to do an experiment, we could do one very painlessly.
1) find like 10 people on the shroomery who self-identify as being able to communicate with the mushroom while tripping.
2) have someone create a secret questionaire of questions people should ask the mushroom while tripping. no one is to discuss the questions at all until its over.
3) look to see if people gave the same answers to the same questions.
anyone interested in setting it up as an "official" project?
This is brilliant, lets do it.
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I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You
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NIMH
MadCap
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 262
Loc: Central Oregon
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: future]
#8414261 - 05/17/08 08:08 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Interesting stuff here.
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I must not Fear. Fear is the mindkiller . Fear is the little-death that
brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over and
through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. ONLY I WILL REMAIN.
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KOPELANDIAA
a grassland fullof secrets
Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 705
Loc: under a pine
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Aopocetx]
#8414343 - 05/17/08 08:24 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Aopocetx said:
I for one don't think mushrooms are sentient (this is enough to make me think you're an idiot) OR that they have spirits. They're just one type of life that happens to produce a chemical that fits in our receptors.
how poetic 
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 3,204
Loc: Australia
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: KOPELANDIAA]
#8414410 - 05/17/08 08:39 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Mushrooms are no more sentient than plants. They can not react to anything other than very limited external stimuli, such as nutrient levels, light levels, fresh air and water. Stimulus-response does not make something sentient. It makes you an automaton, a biological robot, simply following genetic instincts.
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Wave upon wave of demented avengers
Marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
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tripsis
biophile-misanthropist-doofer
Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 4,123
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: zouden]
#8414423 - 05/17/08 08:41 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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As much an automaton as you or me. We are just following our genetic instincts as much as any plant or fungus.
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Since we depend on an abundance of functioning ecosystems to cleanse our water, enrich our soil and manufacture the very air we breathe, biodiversity is clearly not an inheritance to be discarded carelessly - Edward O. Wilson 1992
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 3,204
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 40 minutes, 29 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: tripsis]
#8414524 - 05/17/08 09:03 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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No, we are capable of undertaking actions above and beyond what is required for survival and reproduction. Posting on an internet forum is not a genetic instinct.
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Wave upon wave of demented avengers
Marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
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tripsis
biophile-misanthropist-doofer
Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 4,123
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: zouden]
#8414728 - 05/17/08 09:58 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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That is arguable. We are indeed different to much of life on earth, but posting on an internet forum could be seen as a means for socialising and subsequent mate attraction/selection. We are changing rapidly but it is all still genetic. Just because you can't relate to a fungus or a plant does not mean it is not sentient. The very fact that plants can send out signals to predators of herbivores which are attacking them, or that fungi can redistribute sugars from a healthy tree to a less healthy tree lends weight to the arguement of other ogranisms having sentience.
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Since we depend on an abundance of functioning ecosystems to cleanse our water, enrich our soil and manufacture the very air we breathe, biodiversity is clearly not an inheritance to be discarded carelessly - Edward O. Wilson 1992
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Tchan909
Carpe DM
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,533
Loc: SF Bay Area
Last seen: 47 minutes, 36 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: tripsis]
#8414783 - 05/17/08 10:17 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Exactly. Human beings are essentially biological machines, and all of our actions, emanating from consciousness though they may be, can be boiled down to rote reactions of genetics and conditioning. It is hard to argue over whether or not a rock is sentient when we're not even really sure what "sentience" is.
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
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 truekimbo2
total being glossolalia
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 4,844
Loc: ny
Last seen: 9 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8414803 - 05/17/08 10:25 PM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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thanks tchan, i feel similarly but i didn't know how to put it into words.
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I'm trapped with a mad man. look at him, staring into me, filling my mind with paranoid thoughts
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