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 Nasrudin
Stranger
Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 199
Last seen: 13 hours, 38 minutes
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With regards to the questions in the first post, I'd say the answer is 'no' to all of them. Sentience, however, I'm not sure I'm even clear on the meaning of.
I will say this, and I'm sure many won't like it. But, I think people are...what's the word...well, they're prone to giving unfounded mystical powers to various plants and fungi. Or attributing spirits to them, or whatever form this takes. According to Crimson_Nub, they possess a will, know of evolution, know the future, and many more fantastical things. I can't tell if his post was a joke with all the smilies he used, but I'm sure everyone here can at least recall people making similar insinuations.
I think, based on the structures these and other fungi possess, if you say that they are sentient, you might as well say that every other living thing (barring maybe one cell organisms and such) is sentient as well and then it loses its significance and you don't get to further glorify the almighty mushroom.
And now that I've said that, I think I should also say that I don't want to downplay the incredibly positive (and sometimes negative) role that the ingestion of these and other things can play. It can be a life changing experience and bring about great realizations, even revelations.
I think I had a little more I wanted to say, but it's late here and I'm going to bed. Goodnight. 
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John Smith
Solo Voyager
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 496
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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 Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Zeplike]
#8411944 - 05/17/08 03:43 AM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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for something to exist, it must be sentient.
aka, everything is conscious, and consciousness is everything.
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I have no idea what I am talking about but I do know I say things you don't understand and if you do understand what I am saying then you are wrong.
Edited by John Smith (05/17/08 03:46 AM)
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future
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 408
Last seen: 4 months, 17 days
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: John Smith]
#8412114 - 05/17/08 07:27 AM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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I believe they are smarter then us, infinitely smarter then us. I believe they can teach us a great many things about ourselves, about our enviroment, about where we are heading.
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I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You
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unretarded
Tick and poisionoak collector
Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 817
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 3 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: future]
#8412395 - 05/17/08 10:29 AM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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I love the old tried and true denial rhetoric,.......................If I am too limited to understand and you can not exsplain it ,its not true......
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Look down,Walk far.........
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Aopocetx
Writer
Registered: 03/20/06
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Last seen: 19 minutes, 24 seconds
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Quote:
AnotherDimension said:
According to a reference I consulted, philosophically the question of sentience depends not on the subject's ability to talk or think, but on their capacity to suffer. Personally, I believe that all life shares that capacity. I cannot prove this anymore than you can disprove it.
Sure I can. Mushrooms lack nociceptors.
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truekimbo2
ghost of an alien robot
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 4,971
Loc: ny
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Zeplike]
#8413026 - 05/17/08 02:09 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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if anyone wants to do an experiment, we could do one very painlessly.
1) find like 10 people on the shroomery who self-identify as being able to communicate with the mushroom while tripping.
2) have someone create a secret questionaire of questions people should ask the mushroom while tripping. no one is to discuss the questions at all until its over.
3) look to see if people gave the same answers to the same questions.
anyone interested in setting it up as an "official" project?
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I'm trapped with a mad man. look at him, staring into me, filling my mind with paranoid thoughts
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 Cameron
perma-stone
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 2,143
Loc: Canada
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: truekimbo2]
#8413048 - 05/17/08 02:15 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Sentience and inter-species communication are two very different things. 
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Aopocetx
Writer
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 463
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: truekimbo2]
#8413060 - 05/17/08 02:17 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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That's a great idea kimbo. Once that experiment is over talk to me.
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Tchan909
plagiarist
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,609
Loc: SF Bay Area
Last seen: 2 hours, 42 minutes
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Aopocetx]
#8413092 - 05/17/08 02:23 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Aopocetx said:
Quote:
AnotherDimension said:
According to a reference I consulted, philosophically the question of sentience depends not on the subject's ability to talk or think, but on their capacity to suffer. Personally, I believe that all life shares that capacity. I cannot prove this anymore than you can disprove it.
Sure I can. Mushrooms lack nociceptors.
That doesn't prove jack shit. You think all suffering in the universe is the same suffering you're acquainted with through your nociceptors? 
Is existential angst caused by nociceptors?
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
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Aopocetx
Writer
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 463
Last seen: 19 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8413109 - 05/17/08 02:27 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Is existential angst caused by nociceptors?
No it's caused by a combination of acetylcholine, serotonin, dopamine, and a fuckload of other neurotransmitters. If you believe in evolution, what benefit would a mushroom get from actually producing its own neurotrasmitters to be able to feel pain?
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Tchan909
plagiarist
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,609
Loc: SF Bay Area
Last seen: 2 hours, 42 minutes
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Aopocetx]
#8413126 - 05/17/08 02:32 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Are acetylcholine, serotonin, dopamine, etc. fundamentally conscious? Do they contain little brainwaves in them? No, because they're simple components of a conscious system.
If mushroom consciousness exists, it arose for very different reasons and in very different circumstances than in humans. The lack of nociceptors and acetylcholine proves nothing, other than that they don't experience quite the same things human beings do.
I reserve judgment on the matter. An open mind is a beautiful one.
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
Edited by Tchan909 (05/17/08 02:44 PM)
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12468
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 289
Last seen: 1 hour, 43 minutes
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8413128 - 05/17/08 02:33 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Mike, Neil, Vivian - look at us, fighting, bickering!
I cannot exert mastery over the mushroom, so I consider myself less powerful than it (as a species). I can't prove anything, but my experiences suggest that they allow me to tap into a vast river of knowledge and energy which is not normally so readily available to me.
The mushroom experience is so different than all other chemical experiences that it leads me to feel that it is intelligent, sentient - but not necessarily decision-making.
On the other hand, I feel that all things, from rocks to air to dark matter, are conduits for the soul of the universe. I think mushrooms are especially good conductors of that energetic experience for us humans because we've had a long relationship with them.
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MisterMuscaria
ChurchMonger
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 3,192
Loc: Mega-Lo Mart
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Yeah; I think after you eat them(most kinds if not all) you get connected to that network
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John Smith
Solo Voyager
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 496
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: truekimbo2]
#8413148 - 05/17/08 02:38 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
truekimbo2 said:
if anyone wants to do an experiment, we could do one very painlessly.
1) find like 10 people on the shroomery who self-identify as being able to communicate with the mushroom while tripping.
2) have someone create a secret questionaire of questions people should ask the mushroom while tripping. no one is to discuss the questions at all until its over.
3) look to see if people gave the same answers to the same questions.
anyone interested in setting it up as an "official" project?
not all problems can be solved using the same tools. you are trying to apply an ordinary solution to an extraordinary question.
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I have no idea what I am talking about but I do know I say things you don't understand and if you do understand what I am saying then you are wrong.
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Aopocetx
Writer
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 463
Last seen: 19 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8413234 - 05/17/08 02:57 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Are acetylcholine, serotonin, dopamine, etc. fundamentally conscious? Do they contain little brainwaves in them? No, because they're simple components of a conscious system.
If mushroom consciousness exists, it arose for very different reasons and in very different circumstances than in humans. The lack of nociceptors and acetylcholine proves nothing, other than that they don't experience quite the same things human beings do.
I reserve judgment on the matter. An open mind is a beautiful one.
You're right, but you didn't answer the question in my post. If you believe in evolution, for what purpose did a mushroom evolve the ability to experience pain (and NO I'm not talking about physical pain)?
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truekimbo2
ghost of an alien robot
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 4,971
Loc: ny
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8413258 - 05/17/08 03:02 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Are acetylcholine, serotonin, dopamine, etc. fundamentally conscious? Do they contain little brainwaves in them? No, because they're simple components of a conscious system.
If mushroom consciousness exists, it arose for very different reasons and in very different circumstances than in humans. The lack of nociceptors and acetylcholine proves nothing, other than that they don't experience quite the same things human beings do.
I reserve judgment on the matter. An open mind is a beautiful one.
qft
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I'm trapped with a mad man. look at him, staring into me, filling my mind with paranoid thoughts
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Aopocetx
Writer
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 463
Last seen: 19 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: truekimbo2]
#8413297 - 05/17/08 03:08 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
truekimbo2 said:
qft
First of all, you waste forum space by posting simply "qft." Second, you might want to read my reply right above yours.
As for "An open mind is a beautiful one," I never said mushrooms aren't sentient. But I still don't think they are because none of you could provide something to make me think they could be. Shit, I'm not saying God isn't real, but I think he isn't real because no one has proved it to me.
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Tchan909
plagiarist
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,609
Loc: SF Bay Area
Last seen: 2 hours, 42 minutes
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Aopocetx]
#8413317 - 05/17/08 03:11 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Aopocetx said:
You're right, but you didn't answer the question in my post. If you believe in evolution, for what purpose did a mushroom evolve the ability to experience pain (and NO I'm not talking about physical pain)?
For what purpose did a human evolve the ability to experience pain? The best explanation I can think of is survival, a purpose fundamental to everything that is alive.
The fact is that mycelial networks are extremely complicated and large, and oftentimes appear to be making decisions which confound human observation. We don't know how they do a lot of what they do. It's quite feasible that they operate not on a simple system of enzymatic reactions but on a level of consciousness comparable to our own in some ways.
I don't necessarily believe mushrooms are conscious. It's impossible to say for sure. It just doesn't seem far-fetched to me at all.
Edited by Tchan909 (05/17/08 03:14 PM)
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Aopocetx
Writer
Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 463
Last seen: 19 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Tchan909]
#8413329 - 05/17/08 03:15 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
For what purpose did a human evolve the ability to experience pain? The best explanation I can think of is survival, a purpose fundamental to everything that is alive.
I don't necessarily believe mushrooms are consciousness. It's impossible to say for sure. It just doesn't seem far-fetched to me at all.
You're right, it's for survival, but a creature that stands on two legs and is hunted by things with four legs is much different from an organism that lives underground and is not threatened by anything and FURTHERMORE even if it was threatened, it would not be able to do anything about the threat. Thus there is no point for it to feel pain unless there really is a God and he just wants them to suffer.
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Tchan909
plagiarist
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 3,609
Loc: SF Bay Area
Last seen: 2 hours, 42 minutes
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Re: Are shrooms sentient?! [Re: Aopocetx]
#8413341 - 05/17/08 03:18 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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But mycelial networks face plenty of threats, just not the same type of threats humans did.
And mycelial networks DO react to threats, such as bacterial contamination and inappropriate substrate. That's why this conversation is taking place in the first place, right?
If you're just arguing against those folks who say they can speak with the Intergalactic Mycelial Network upon consuming five grams of mushrooms, we are on the same page. It just doesn't bother me much. 
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
Edited by Tchan909 (05/17/08 03:22 PM)
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