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 Penguarky Tunguin
Touching Your Taint
 
Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 9,682
Loc: Nonlocal
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Suspicious of Alex Grey? 
So what if he took drugs, look at what he got PUBLISHED! 
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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
A road is a flattened-out wheel, rolled up in the belly of an airplane.
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 Ginseng1
Elegant Universe
Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 2,134
Last seen: 22 days, 2 hours
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Great stuff man. Your beliefs about psychedelics coincide with mine almost identically (especially what you wrote about atheism).
Having intense talks like that with family members takes alot of strength.
Your sister seems to preach 'objectiveness', yet does not practice it herself. Must be very tedious! Hopefully in due time she might get out of that hollow 'atheist' trap.
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"The universe is honest, humanity is not." - A star
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meams
Stranger(s)
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 3,057
Loc: Nawfuck VA
Last seen: 17 hours, 1 minute
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 Re: A letter I just wrote to my sister... [Re: Ginseng1]
#8403317 - 05/14/08 11:14 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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When I read your original letter to her I knew the kind of response you would get. Not because it was written badly, or portrayed an inaccurate message - but because she doesn't have the mindset to understand or appreciate it.
When i was in highschool, I was the straight edge kid. I wasn't Hardcore, with Xs on my hands or anything - i just chose to abstain from drugs and alcohol. Nobody could convince me otherwise, but I didn't judge others for their choices. Your original letter explained everything just as perfectly as a fan of psychiedelics could, but she doens't speak the language. She hasn't had her perception opened up - hasn't seen the world the way we do - doesn't understand what is to be truly in your own head. And until her mind's inner eye is opened, she will remain ignorant to your viewpoints.
The sad part is that she can't just accept that you have chose this path. It's obvious from your speech you are well aware of your actions, your choices, and your goals. Inherently, people who are truly knowledgable of their choices and the consequences of those choices have it in their self-interest to choose those that will make them happy. I can tell from the text you type online that you're happy with where you are, and the path you're traveling down. If she can't percieve that same message in direct conversation, and accept that you are where you want to be - then I don't think there is much more you can do.
Perhaps someday she will realize there is more to life than one person's subjective measurements of success. I wish you the best in your endeavor - but I have faith that you will finally get through to her somehow.
I want to say "Show her this thread" - but I don't think it would do too much good. I'm sure we're all just a forum full of "misdirected" people in her eyes.
I wish I could offer more (any) help.
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mandolin.
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MOTH
Warrior
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 17,233
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Your sense of peace about your life is what's important. 
Sorry she doesn't understand that. Maybe she will one day.
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bradley
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1,827
Last seen: 6 hours, 31 minutes
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I am very impressed with your letter and course of action.
I guess the only thing I could suggest, although it is too late now, is to first mention the psychological benefits and therapeutic uses, clinical trials, etc. I would try to keep it scientific; the spiritual stuff is definitely a sensitive topic for most people. Sometimes the 'spiritual' language can be substituted by descriptors such as 'enthusiasm', 'introspection', 'layered mind-states', 'plasticity', and 'openness'. Then again, you don't want to modify your speech so much that it becomes dishonest.
How do you think it will it be different if she changes her mind?
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Grok
ElfspiceEnthusiast
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 859
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 23 days, 17 hours
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Re: A letter I just wrote to my sister... [Re: bradley]
#8413029 - 05/17/08 02:10 PM (3 months, 19 days ago) |
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OMR, that was an extremely well written letter, as good as any could be regarding the subject matter. It just goes to show that no matter how compelling an argument you present, people will cling to their beliefs and assumptions like liferafts.
I relate to your positions to a striking degree, I feel I could have written that letter myself (thought it probably wouldn't have been as good). I grew up a devout atheist and also took mushrooms for the first time seeking more of an interesting high than a transcendental experience, which it ended up being. I 'came out of the psychedelic closet' with my family a few years later and it went very, very badly, beginning with an argument like your sister's coming from them, turning into extreme self-righteousness which was impossible to reason with and which eventually became extremely disrespectful to myself (at this point I stopped caring entirely what they thought, which only furthered their certainty that I had lost touch with reality) and climaxing with my parents, having cosigned on my apartment at the time, leading the cops through while I was out of town in an effort compile evidence of DMT manufacturing to 'scare me' into going to rehab, which failed and ended me up with
-felony manufacturing charges that were reduced because of lack of evidence to
-felony possession charges that were reduced, being a first time offender and eligible for conditional discharge, to
-a 1.5 year probation sentence which included mandatory rehab, community service, fines, etc which I am still in the midst of, plus a tremendous deal of anger, frustration, and depression which I am still sorting out.
Amazingly I actually have a functioning, if shallow, relationship with my family again, which ironically if it weren't for transforming psychedelic experiences of my life would never happen; my old self would have held onto that anger forever and it would have surely consumed me by now. This hardly the whole story either -- it is much more expansive. You just never know how people will react when they are afraid.
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Reality: - (1) Where idealism goes to die.
- (2) "...a good place to visit, but not somewhere I wanna live!" - Uncle B
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." - Douglas Adams
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca the Younger
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 5,229
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Re: A letter I just wrote to my sister... [Re: Grok]
#8415714 - 05/18/08 08:20 AM (3 months, 18 days ago) |
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OMR, I know it's a little late, but I have to say that I think it's wonderfull that you can write such a heart felt letter to your sister and expect honest feedback. My sister's a great person, one of the kindest people I know, but I could never be this honest with her and expect a discussion back. Maybe I'm not giving her enough credit, but that's the impression that I get.
It seems to me that you have to chalk up the differences you two have. She seems concerned with success, while you are concerned with life. Neither of you are correct, you just need to remain on that common ground and maybe just ignore the rest, since you've already made your views perfectly clear.
Sorry if I misjudged you in any way.
Now I'm thinking of corresponding with my family in letter form, I can never seem to say things right the first time.
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The life of American Vagabonds
To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.
-Oscar Wilde
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badchad
Stranger
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 2,488
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Re: A letter I just wrote to my sister... [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#8415823 - 05/18/08 09:34 AM (3 months, 18 days ago) |
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I think its a good thing your sister is so concerned with your well-being.
It seems to be the prevailing view that self-discovery, personal growth etc. are mutually exclusive with "success". Why can't you do both at the same time?
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OneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 55,475
Loc: new york shitty
Last seen: 3 hours, 41 seconds
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Re: A letter I just wrote to my sister... [Re: badchad]
#8488101 - 06/05/08 12:01 PM (3 months, 16 hours ago) |
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I won the Ban Lottery a couple of times and never responded to everyone's kind responses.
chad I do agree with you, on both counts...I mean it's good she's concerned fo me, and also I agree that success and happiness are not mutually exclusive.
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The Drug Policy Alliance  Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
"The psychedelic experience - it has a tremendous force to revivify the spirit, particularly because it is not an ideology. It is not something someone 'figured out.' It is an EXPERIENCE. And this is important to bear in mind." - McKenna.
"We're not mad, we're just doing what we want. You rigid thinkers can't recognize the healthy sanity of that." - Harlan Ellison, "Crackpots"
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