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 The Cypher
 
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 4,204
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 Re: Natural Solutions to Anxiety [Re: boxcarguy07]
#8404623 - 05/15/08 09:39 AM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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I'm pretty sure diazepam is synthesized in the lab rather than extracted from natural sources. Hence the distinction between a pharmaceutical drug and a natural one.
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the truth will set you free
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 boxcarguy07
Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 1,869
Last seen: 43 minutes, 3 seconds
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Re: Natural Solutions to Anxiety [Re: The Cypher]
#8404630 - 05/15/08 09:42 AM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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I know, I'm just saying if it were to be extracted, it would most likely be from a ridiculous amount of potatoes that no one could realistically eat.
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"Sit in reverie and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind."
-Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,455
Loc: Americas
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Re: Natural Solutions to Anxiety [Re: boxcarguy07]
#8404712 - 05/15/08 10:06 AM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
boxcarguy07 said:
For me, the definition of natural would be either something completely whole as it is found in nature, or a chemical isolated via a simple extraction.
Something that doesn't require chemicals to be split and put back together in a different way to be formed. But I'm no chemist by any means, so forgive me if my jargon is off.
As for the synthetic vs. natural thing, I'm not trying to argue. It seems as if I was mistaken a bit...
Although a study found that natural vitamin E is about 2x-3x as bioavailable as synthetic (The
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1998 Apr;67(4):669-84), I'm not sure that the vitamin E in question is exactly the same molecule. dl-alpha and gamma, and all that stuff.
The main thing is with natural and synthetic vitamins are the cofactors. Things found in an orange that help to increase the bioavailability that might not be present if you were to just take a vitamin C tablet. That has little bearing on the present issue, I'm sure, as we're not really discussing vitamins, but nonetheless...
With diazepam, I'm sure you could never get the amount that you would get from a prescription by eating potatoes. Potatoes are toxic until cooked anyway, and who knows how cooking affects the compound.
So I guess to take the natural definition a bit further, it has to be taken in an amount that could be realistically gotten from the whole source.
Obviously there's different definitions of natural.
To each his own, however.
I stick with whole foods and plant sources. I don't even bother with extracts anymore, except for the occasional dose of kava kava extract.
Well I guess we'll disagree then on our definition. To me, something is natural if it exists in nature. Since a molecule is the same irregardless of its source, then it isn't meaningful to me to call it not natural.
W/ regards to your citation, I couldn't find the journal in my database, but found somet things discussing it. It seems that the issue here is that people are selling as "vitamin E" a racemic mixture, that is something that has both the vitamin E that is found in living things, and an enantiomer that has the same atoms connected, but in a different way. Obviously this is cuz they're cheap and synthesis produces both kinds. Apparently your body only can use one type, which is common.
I think this is blatantly deceptive and they should be sued. TO call something vitamin E when it is an unusable isomer is ridiculous. Again, this just flows from the general convention of naming substances per their connectivity, but in biological systems, chirality is important too. So I'm with you on that, that is a poor practice by greedy and liying supplement manufacturers.
And I'll also agree w/ you on the cofactors and such. We have no idea how much of our body works. We don't know what all is beneficial about certain foods or supplements. Therefore it is error to presume that one active ingredient will represent the entire product (like w/ marijuana vs. a THC pill).
But as a caveat, if we're comparing the effects of a preperation or molecule, whether that substance is produced naturally or not is irrelevant, same effects.
The problem comes from the fact that we can't replicate nature when its too expensive or we don't know what to replicate. And then the problem you've identified w/ jackasses lieing about what they're product contains, I contend vitamin E is a specific enantiomer, just as you wouldn't call something morphine if it was totally biologically inactive but had the same structure minus optical isomerism, you shouldn't call something vitamin E if it isn't active as a vitamin but only has the same conectivity as the 'real' vitamin E.
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ChiefGreenLeaf
Cherriest of All Humans
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Pineal Gland
Last seen: 14 hours, 18 minutes
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Re: Natural Solutions to Anxiety [Re: johnm214]
#8405002 - 05/15/08 11:49 AM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
So what does natural mean?
It means using your food as medicine. Herbs and the like. Its working with your bodies healing process.
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ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."
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