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 Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9,104
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 13 minutes, 42 seconds
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 Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: klimt]
#8403263 - 05/14/08 11:04 PM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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No, spirituality means: Belief in something SPIRITUAL.
Spititual means: Something with the qualities of a SPIRIT.
SPIRIT means: An intangible thing.
"Spirit" is rooted in the Latin word: Spiros... meaning breath.
Simple.
Spirituality means what it means, nothing more... nothing less.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -Inigo Montoya
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Oweyervishice
You're Vicious
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 390
Last seen: 20 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: Cervantes]
#8403267 - 05/14/08 11:04 PM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
You're getting it...
But, the mind is physical. It is grey matter. You can hold a person's mind in your hands.
Thoughts are NOT physical... so don't confuse the two. Can you hold a thought in your hands? Do you see thoughts flying around? Do thoughts make noise?
By mind, I meant consciousness...yes including thoughts. We don't know much about how our brains and conscious mind are intertwined, why rule out awareness as being some misunderstood form of physicality?
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I found myself going away
Never wanting to go back again.
Leaving all my thoughts behind
Searching for some new ones inside.
I found myself.  
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9,104
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 13 minutes, 42 seconds
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Because... awareness is not physical.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -Inigo Montoya
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Oweyervishice
You're Vicious
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 390
Last seen: 20 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: Cervantes]
#8403307 - 05/14/08 11:12 PM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
No, spirituality means: Belief in something SPIRITUAL.
Spititual means: Something with the qualities of a SPIRIT.
SPIRIT means an intangible thing.
Spirit is rooted in the Latin word: Spiros... meaning breath.
Simple.
Spirituality means what it means, nothing more... nothing less.
The meanings people assign to words in their heads aren't usually direct quotes from dictionaries. But if you wanna play that game...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/intangible
INTANGIBLE
1. Incapable of being perceived by the senses.
2. Incapable of being realized or defined.
3. Incorporeal.
So basically, a ghost that we can't even call a ghost. I don't think thoughts qualify as intangible. Just because we can't yet tell how the brain is able to create a subjective thinking mind, does not mean it is non-physical.
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I found myself going away
Never wanting to go back again.
Leaving all my thoughts behind
Searching for some new ones inside.
I found myself.
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Oweyervishice
You're Vicious
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 390
Last seen: 20 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: Cervantes]
#8403329 - 05/14/08 11:17 PM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Because... awareness is not physical.
And yet it interacts with the physical world? How is that possible?
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I found myself going away
Never wanting to go back again.
Leaving all my thoughts behind
Searching for some new ones inside.
I found myself.
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9,104
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 13 minutes, 42 seconds
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Instead of looking at your terrible definition of a word (consider your source...), let's look at the word TANGIBLE... and let's use a better source, shall we?
tan·gi·ble
–adjective 1. capable of being touched; discernible by the touch; material or substantial.
2. real or actual, rather than imaginary or visionary: the tangible benefits of sunshine.
3. definite; not vague or elusive: no tangible grounds for suspicion.
4. (of an asset) having actual physical existence, as real estate or chattels, and therefore capable of being assigned a value in monetary terms.
–noun 5. something tangible, esp. a tangible asset.
Now, the prefix "in" means "the opposite of"... or are you INcapable of understanding this concept?
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -Inigo Montoya
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Oweyervishice
You're Vicious
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 390
Last seen: 20 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: Cervantes]
#8403376 - 05/14/08 11:27 PM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Instead of looking at your terrible definition of a word (consider your source...), let's look at the word TANGIBLE... and let's use a better source, shall we?
tan·gi·ble
–adjective 1. capable of being touched; discernible by the touch; material or substantial.
2. real or actual, rather than imaginary or visionary: the tangible benefits of sunshine.
3. definite; not vague or elusive: no tangible grounds for suspicion.
4. (of an asset) having actual physical existence, as real estate or chattels, and therefore capable of being assigned a value in monetary terms.
–noun 5. something tangible, esp. a tangible asset.
Now, the prefix "in" means "the opposite of"... or are you INcapable of understanding this concept?
I don't see how this definition changes anything, honestly. Perhaps I'm being dense.
All this proves is that SPIRIT as you have defined it is in no way real to us except as an imaginary friend. A physical brain in a physical universe creates some bizarre abstract phenomenon that is the anti-physical? When a brain shuts down, there is no more awareness. HOW can something that you say does not exist physically possibly have a relationship with a material universe?
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I found myself going away
Never wanting to go back again.
Leaving all my thoughts behind
Searching for some new ones inside.
I found myself.
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9,104
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 13 minutes, 42 seconds
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How can something imagined... like say... a rocket ship to the moon... ever become reality?
Spiritual concepts, thoughts, ideas, and philosophies become real every day.
Once they become real, they stop being spiritual. They become tangible. They become something.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -Inigo Montoya
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 Chemy
This is a stick up
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,521
Loc: Log Cabin, AK
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: Cervantes]
#8403399 - 05/14/08 11:32 PM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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What feels the emotions that people feel?
I understand that chemical reactions cause these emotions to be felt, but what feels them.
When I listen to music I really like, what feels the high that is felt?
When I get drunk, my body and my brain feels drunk, but when I am happy or joyous or laughing, the feeling doesn't seem to connect with my body or brain.
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“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them". -Ayn Rand
“Useless laws weaken the necessary laws.”
-Montesquieu, 1748
The thesis that I want to advance today is that the drug war and the laws that prohibit the private consumption of certain drugs are unconstitutional. Prohibition laws, themselves, violate every tenet of limited government that is embodied in our Constitution.
http://www.paulhager.org/libertarian/drug_con.html
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Oweyervishice
You're Vicious
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 390
Last seen: 20 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: Cervantes]
#8403403 - 05/14/08 11:33 PM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Here is a quote from you earlier in the thread.
"Spirituality has nothing to do with natural and supernatural.
Man, how many times do we have to have this discussion?
Spirituality is real... but most people mis-use the word."
If spirituality has nothing to do with the supernatural, what are you arguing about?
Also I find it funny that now I'm the one arguing FOR spirituality being real, while you argue against. 
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I found myself going away
Never wanting to go back again.
Leaving all my thoughts behind
Searching for some new ones inside.
I found myself.
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 370
Last seen: 6 days, 20 hours
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if something is not phsyical, that dost not mean tis not tangible. emotions...physical manifestations? sure, perhaps from a different perceptual field, yet not in our common domain of perception, yet they most certainly are tangible, such as feeling all pouty sad boo hoo...
as for this thread...tis a boquet of beautiful bull shit...and what arises from the shit?
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in all of Infinite
there is but One
and it is nOne
ever and always
in every and all ways
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Oweyervishice
You're Vicious
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 390
Last seen: 20 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: MokshaIs]
#8403548 - 05/15/08 12:08 AM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
MokshaIs said:
if something is not phsyical, that dost not mean tis not tangible. emotions...physical manifestations? sure, perhaps from a different perceptual field, yet not in our common domain of perception, yet they most certainly are tangible, such as feeling all pouty sad boo hoo...
as for this thread...tis a boquet of beautiful bull shit...and what arises from the shit?
Well, it is all semantics at this point. We all experience awareness obviously, whether it is physical or not.
As for your assessment of the thread...lovely.
Is it a phoenix that arises from the shit?
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I found myself going away
Never wanting to go back again.
Leaving all my thoughts behind
Searching for some new ones inside.
I found myself.
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Oweyervishice
You're Vicious
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 390
Last seen: 20 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: Chemy]
#8403617 - 05/15/08 12:24 AM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said:
What feels the emotions that people feel?
I understand that chemical reactions cause these emotions to be felt, but what feels them.
When I listen to music I really like, what feels the high that is felt?
When I get drunk, my body and my brain feels drunk, but when I am happy or joyous or laughing, the feeling doesn't seem to connect with my body or brain.
I understand this pure awareness you are talking about. Mindstuff, but with no mind. Great. I still say it exists in the same dimension, on the same plane, in the physical world, as my brain. If I have a soul, it is an aspect of the physical because it is able to have thoughts and perceptions and awareness of the physical projected into it. If it interacts with physical phenomenon, which awareness does, very evidently, then it seems that it is actually a lesser understood aspect of the physical.
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I found myself going away
Never wanting to go back again.
Leaving all my thoughts behind
Searching for some new ones inside.
I found myself.
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9,104
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 13 minutes, 42 seconds
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
"Spirituality has nothing to do with natural and supernatural."
If spirituality has nothing to do with the supernatural, what are you arguing about?
If you'd review the context in which people were using those two words before I chimed in... you'd find your answer.
Since then, you've argued against the meaning of the words, :Spiritual" "Intangible" and "Tangible" remember?
Do you really need me to recap this whole thread for you?
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -Inigo Montoya
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,590
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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'Is it a phoenix that arises from the shit?'
Phoenix no like poo. He into roots.
Soma??
Amrita??
Ambrosia??
The holy grail??
Fruit of the tree of life??
The golden fleece??
The fountain of youth??
Haoma??
Manna??
Bread of life??
Fountain of living waters??
Hidden manna??
The cosmic egg??
The prima materia??
Philosopher's stone??
The flesh of god??
Fruit of the tree of knowledge??
The flesh of jesus??
The hammer of thor??
The small white stone??
The elixir of immortality??
The feathered serpent??
The phoenix??
Ankh??
Rudra??
Djed??
The one eyed howler??
The eye of horus??
The world tree??
Celestial food??
Aten??
Fly agaric??
Best be lookin for them brightly colored 'easter' eggs, son.
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ChiefGreenLeaf
Cherriest of All Humans
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 653
Loc: Pineal Gland
Last seen: 13 minutes, 56 seconds
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: MokshaIs]
#8405338 - 05/15/08 01:21 PM (3 months, 20 days ago) |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWBXQgpB45k
[url=&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_tzp3tAj-c&feature=related[/url]
[url=&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4PmOKviQ48&feature=related[/url]
SPIRITUALITY IS SCIENCE
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ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."
Edited by ChiefGreenLeaf (05/15/08 01:24 PM)
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C.M. Mann
Stranger
Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 88
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: Chemy]
#8408905 - 05/16/08 10:42 AM (3 months, 19 days ago) |
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Metaphysics is a science, spirituality is a noun. I think that the mind has an energy that exists after death, and it could be possible to retain the original personality even though you would probably be in a different dimension. I know that most people would not agree, but no one can prove that I am wrong
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 9,033
Loc: PNW
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: C.M. Mann]
#8408962 - 05/16/08 11:00 AM (3 months, 19 days ago) |
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The burden of proof is on the claimant. Since you can offer no evidence in support of your claim, it is likely without basis & therefore not worth considering. 
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deimya
Phase transiting
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 379
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: C.M. Mann]
#8409139 - 05/16/08 11:47 AM (3 months, 19 days ago) |
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Metaphysics is in the realm of philosophy, not science. Unless you can point me to a relevant scientific metaphysical theory, that is with falsifiable predictions against which experiments were performed.
..unless you're using the broader definition of science which includes any venture into knowledge of the world with or without the scientific method. But then metaphysical knowledge still smells fishy to me.
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The future is a race between education and catastrophe.
-- H.G. Wells
Edited by deimya (05/16/08 11:55 AM)
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Rahz
Spore Viewer
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 1,848
Last seen: 4 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: spirituality is bull shit [Re: deimya]
#8409557 - 05/16/08 01:38 PM (3 months, 19 days ago) |
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We had a similar conversation last year, 4th link down in "similar threads".
My take is that -self-improvement- as a means of being more spiritual, is BS. Every person is as spiritual as they will ever be. It's good to improve, but it's also good to take the lows with the highs, otherwise the improvement/spirituality become the obsession and the spirit gets covered up in bull shit.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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