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 Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR
Registered: 09/15/00
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 IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons
#8400665 - 05/14/08 12:37 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Synopsis highlighted.
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There was something interesting missing from Maj. Gen. Kevin Bergner's introductory remarks to journalists at his regular news briefing in Baghdad on Wednesday: the word "Iran," or any form of it. It was especially striking as Bergner, the U.S. military spokesman here, announced the extraordinary list of weapons and munitions that have been uncovered in recent weeks since fighting erupted between Iraqi and U.S. security forces and Shiite militiamen.
Among other things, Bergner cited 20,000 "items of ammunition, explosives and weapons" reported by Iraqi forces in the central city of Karbala; an additional Karbala cache containing 570 explosive devices, nine mortars, four anti-aircraft missiles, and 45 RPGs; and in the southern city of Basra alone, 39 mortar tubes, 1,800 mortars and artillery rounds, 600 rockets, and 387 roadside bombs. Read his remarks here.
Not once did Bergner point the finger at Iran for any of these weapons and munitions, which is a striking change from just a couple of weeks ago when U.S. military officials here and at the Pentagon were saying that caches found in Basra in particular had revealed Iranian-made arms manufactured as recently as this year. They say the majority of rockets being fired at U.S. bases, including Baghdad's Green Zone, are launched by militiamen receiving training, arms and other aid from Iran.
Today brought fresh attacks, including an unusual barrage fired at a military base used by British and U.S. forces in Basra, in southern Iraq. A statement said "several" rockets hit the base during the afternoon, and that initial reports indicated two civilian contractors were killed, and four soldiers and four civilians injured.
It was the first reported attack of its kind since March 27 in Basra.
Iraqi officials also have accused Iran of meddling in violence and had echoed the U.S. accusations of new Iranian-made arms being found in Basra. But neither the United States nor Iraq has displayed any of the alleged arms to the public or press, and lately it is looking less likely they will. U.S. military officials said it was up to the Iraqis to show the items; Iraqi officials lately have backed off the accusations against Iran.
A plan to show some alleged Iranian-supplied explosives to journalists last week in Karbala and then destroy them was canceled after the United States realized none of them was from Iran. A U.S. military spokesman attributed the confusion to a misunderstanding that emerged after an Iraqi Army general in Karbala erroneously reported the items were of Iranian origin.
When U.S. explosives experts went to investigate, they discovered they were not Iranian after all.
Iran, meanwhile, continues to seethe after an Iraqi delegation went to Tehran last week to confront it with the accusations. It has denied the accusations, and it says as long as U.S. forces continue to take part in military action in Iraq's Shiite strongholds, it won't consider holding further talks with Washington on how to stabilize Iraq.
—Tina Susman in Baghdad
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You've been my little garden gnome,
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Then I shaped you in plaster to give you a pose,
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 Minstrel
Talkback is Barberpole
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,391
Loc: Loc: Loc: Loc: Loc: Loc: ...
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Disco Cat]
#8401156 - 05/14/08 02:24 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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The chief UN weapons inspector's report on Iraq not having WMDs was irrelevant compared to the hard evidence America had.
It doesn't matter, though.
We are at war with Iran. We have always been at war with Iran.
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Edited by Minstrel (05/14/08 02:26 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Disco Cat]
#8401231 - 05/14/08 02:47 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Your linkage is missing as is any date.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/world/middleeast/11cnd-weapons.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/whats-behind-the-iraq-iran-weapons-imbroglio/
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/01/no-more-iranian.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18492460/
Quote:
Iranian officials deny importing weapons or militants into neighboring Iraq, but The Washington Post reported Friday that attacks in Iraq involving Iranian-made EFPs reached a record high last month.
May 2007
There are lots more. Are you so deluded in your hatred for America and everything American that you really can't fathom that there is other scum in the world that might act in an aggressive manner? Because that kind of thinking is so bereft of rationality as to render every little thought that came from that brain highly suspect.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR
Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,444
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: zappaisgod]
#8401310 - 05/14/08 03:11 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Ah, I forgot the link, my bad.
IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons - May 8.
The "Iranian made weapons" in the older links you posted would be the ones mentioned in the link I posted, which predictably turned out to not be Iranian made after all.
Your "hatred of America" comment is just your usual stupidity.
P.S. you quoted May 2007 not 2008, concerning Iran-supplied Shiite claims which have long since been unsubstantiated.
--------------------
You've been my little garden gnome,
Ever since I shot you with a dart that melted your bones.
Then I shaped you in plaster to give you a pose,
Now you'll forever look beautiful next to my tomatoes.
All that you might ever need to know to use the English language
www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com
Edited by Disco Cat (05/14/08 03:25 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Disco Cat]
#8401404 - 05/14/08 03:44 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Disco Cat said:
Ah, I forgot the link, my bad.
IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons - May 8.
The "Iranian made weapons" in the older links you posted would be the ones mentioned in the link I posted, which predictably turned out to not be Iranian made after all.
Nope, they are notQuote:
Your "hatred of America" comment is just your usual stupidity.
P.S. you quoted May 2007 not 2008, concerning Iran-supplied Shiite claims which have long since been unsubstantiated.
"long since been unsubstantiated."
Think on that a moment. Given your "bent" I doubt anything short of a youtube with I'madinnerplate at the detonator would suffice. Do you think these goatherders are manufacturing shaped charges and rockets themselves? I only posted a tiny sample of the search results for Iran weapons Iraq. You are such an unwitting dupe for anything anti America that you will believe anything any criminal says regarding America's suckage. Which is just as stupid as blind patriotism. Except it is t3H koooolzors. Lightweight.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR
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Posts: 2,444
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: zappaisgod]
#8401546 - 05/14/08 04:21 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Think for a moment on the definition of "unsubstantiated." Perhaps enough of the cells in your head function enough to realize that's literally and inarguably precisely what the Iranian-made weapons claims were a year ago, and still are today. The links you posted only highlight that the claims are nothing but speculation. Maybe this will help you, since Iraqi officials, who by accord of the US military are the ones in possession of the found "Iranian" weapons, stating there is no conclusive evidence sure doesn't.
I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to respond and expose your nonsense. After all, whoever last said it was right, "You're an idiot and everybody knows it." It's consistently you versus reality, guess who wins every time? I'm not anti-US at all, I'm just anti-stupidity... which puts you in my bad books.
--------------------
You've been my little garden gnome,
Ever since I shot you with a dart that melted your bones.
Then I shaped you in plaster to give you a pose,
Now you'll forever look beautiful next to my tomatoes.
All that you might ever need to know to use the English language
www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com
|
 xFrockx
Fucking Hippie
 
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1,274
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: zappaisgod]
#8401585 - 05/14/08 04:34 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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From your N.Y. times link:
"American intelligence community believes that the weapons shipments have been approved at “the highest levels of the Iranian government.” Still, no direct evidence was presented of how the intelligence community has made that link."
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I want to tell you a story,
About a little man,
If I can,
A gnome named Grimble Grumble,
And little gnomes stay in their homes,
Eating, sleeping, Drinking their wine
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: xFrockx]
#8401606 - 05/14/08 04:38 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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And from the new TIME article I just gave zap, which comments explicitly on those weapons from a year ago that zap is making his case on:
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Indeed, the U.S. allegations appear to be based on speculation, spurred by the appearance about a year ago of a new breed of roadside bomb in Iraq. Explosively formed penetrators, or EFPs, proved effective at piercing American armor by firing a concave copper disc from a makeshift cannon, which transformed the slug midair into a molten jet of super-heated metal. Accusations that Iran was shipping the things into Iraq grew louder as U.S. casualties from the weapon rose. But no concrete evidence has emerged in public that Iran was behind the weapons. U.S. officials have revealed no captured shipments of such devices and offered no other proof.
Instead, the Americans argued their case publicly with deductive reasoning: the copper slugs used in EFPs had to be precisely tooled with a heavy press in order to work properly, they said; no such heavy presses were in operation in Iraq, according to the Americans, therefore the slugs had to have been machined in Iran and moved into Iraq. It is, however, not impossible that such heavy presses may well be operating in Iraq. Three major cities in southern Iraq (Basra, Karbala and Najaf) have gone without a significant U.S. military presence for more than a year. These cities, which U.S. officials believe form hubs for the flow of arms into Baghdad, may indeed have such presses.
The U.S. has also alleged that Tehran was passing rockets to militia elements in Iraq for use against American troops and, lately, the Iraqi government living under American protection in the Green Zone. Recovered materials from some of the rockets reveal Iranian markings, American officials have said, without however producing convincing physical evidence.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Everybody knows this stuff, I don't know why he's trying to argue a case contrary to it.
--------------------
You've been my little garden gnome,
Ever since I shot you with a dart that melted your bones.
Then I shaped you in plaster to give you a pose,
Now you'll forever look beautiful next to my tomatoes.
All that you might ever need to know to use the English language
www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 12,138
Last seen: 13 minutes, 16 seconds
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Disco Cat]
#8402062 - 05/14/08 06:38 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Which just highlights my point that you people seem to feel that the only acceptable evidence is that which rises to some courtly notion of "beyond a reasonable doubt". You have been raised at the teat that "not proven guilty" means "innocent" and are thus quite willing to swallow the lies and obfuscations of any thuggish asshole who suits your dogma. "Useful idiot" was coined for you two. Why don't either one of you explain how they got these obviously manufactured weapons. Do you think they were made in a yurt? And you have the audacity to call me an idiot? I suppose you don't think Iran has anything to do with Hezbollah and Hamas too? No no, fucking peaceable choirboys, the mullahs are. It beggars belief that there could be such suckers.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: zappaisgod]
#8402156 - 05/14/08 07:08 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Hey guys, you're the idiots... guys... hey guys... guys, you're the... guys? Did you hear me... guys?
No, I didn't call you an idiot. I quoted someone else who said to specifically you "You're an idiot and everybody knows it," and acknowledged the truth of the statement.
You are the master of the craft of being a dupe and swallowing lies, and it's both entertaining and a travesty how much of an unthinking blind muck up you are.
I mean, look at this example, from a sea of examples:
"Why don't either one of you explain how they got these obviously manufactured weapons. Do you think they were made in a yurt?"
How much of a colossal moron do you have to be to suggest that these weapons could only have come from either a yurt or Iran, specifically with the knowledge and consent of Iran's government? The TIME article I posted for your benefit even made a clear point that the weapons could very possibly be machined in Iraq. Whatever answer flops out of the thing you wish were a working mind will surely suffice to deliver lols while highlighting how much of a failure you are. After all, there is deep truth to the statement "You're an idiot and everybody knows it."
--------------------
You've been my little garden gnome,
Ever since I shot you with a dart that melted your bones.
Then I shaped you in plaster to give you a pose,
Now you'll forever look beautiful next to my tomatoes.
All that you might ever need to know to use the English language
www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 12,138
Last seen: 13 minutes, 16 seconds
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Disco Cat]
#8405755 - 05/15/08 03:26 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Oh my fucking zappa your density rivals that of a neutron star. Obviously, I don't think it could possibly have come from a yurt. Stop sucking mullah choad and give me your best guess as to where these obviously sophisticated weapons came from. My best guess....Iran, since they have the means the motivation the proximity and the wherewithal. Al Sadr is vacationing where again? I suppose you think OJ is innocent too. You are doomed to perpetual victimhood.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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Disco Cat
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: zappaisgod]
#8405921 - 05/15/08 04:15 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
How much of a colossal moron do you have to be to suggest that these weapons could only have come from either a yurt or Iran, specifically with the knowledge and consent of Iran's government? The TIME article I posted for your benefit even made a clear point that the weapons could very possibly be machined in Iraq.
You, zappa, are probably the only person who read that and confused it as suggesting that you believed the weapons were coming from a yurt (and therefore a colossal moron), rather than as suggesting that believing Iran to be the only possible source identifies oneself as a colossal moron.
It's long since expected at this point that you'd be too stupid to get your own hyperbole. Just one more flub to add to you mountain of flubs.
"Oh my fucking zappa your density rivals that of a neutron star"
edit: actually, I can't even laugh at that irony, you're just too stupid.
--------------------
You've been my little garden gnome,
Ever since I shot you with a dart that melted your bones.
Then I shaped you in plaster to give you a pose,
Now you'll forever look beautiful next to my tomatoes.
All that you might ever need to know to use the English language
www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com
Edited by Disco Cat (05/15/08 04:41 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Disco Cat]
#8406012 - 05/15/08 04:41 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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So, I ask again, where the fuck do YOU think they came from? Mars? Tibet? Burkina Faso?
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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HeadTrip420
PoolShark
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: zappaisgod]
#8406120 - 05/15/08 05:13 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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russia
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hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi
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xFrockx
Fucking Hippie
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: HeadTrip420]
#8406527 - 05/15/08 07:11 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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I personally think many of these weapons are probably american in origin, maybe have changed hands a few times, and some of them have been modified. There was a dude in austrailia who built a cruise missle for less than like 100k, a terror group has a lot more money and power than some yutz in austrailia.
Also, some may indeed be iranian, but that doesnt mean they were sent there by iran in the last 4-5 years. Some of those weapons could have been purchased by saddam and taken by guerrillas long before we ever got there.
--------------------
I want to tell you a story,
About a little man,
If I can,
A gnome named Grimble Grumble,
And little gnomes stay in their homes,
Eating, sleeping, Drinking their wine
Edited by xFrockx (05/15/08 07:16 PM)
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JRayV
guy on the couch
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 522
Loc: Kentucky
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Disco Cat]
#8407184 - 05/15/08 09:35 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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shrems
golden student
Registered: 01/21/04
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: zappaisgod]
#8408738 - 05/16/08 09:34 AM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
My best guess....Iran, since they have the means the motivation the proximity and the wherewithal.
All that is is flimsy party line speculation. That doesn't count as a valid argument.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: xFrockx]
#8409050 - 05/16/08 11:27 AM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
I personally think many of these weapons are probably american in origin
All that is is flimsy party line speculation. That doesn't count as a valid argument.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Baby_Hitler
Anarcho-Technologist
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Seuss]
#8409081 - 05/16/08 11:34 AM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Pollitical discussion is inherently 99% speculation.
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xFrockx
Fucking Hippie
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Posts: 1,274
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Seuss]
#8409560 - 05/16/08 01:39 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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--------------------
I want to tell you a story,
About a little man,
If I can,
A gnome named Grimble Grumble,
And little gnomes stay in their homes,
Eating, sleeping, Drinking their wine
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 12,138
Last seen: 13 minutes, 16 seconds
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: xFrockx]
#8409600 - 05/16/08 01:50 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Those were Iraqi weapons that went missing from the Times' article, not US explosives. and the Worldnet Daily stuff is just irrelevant and probably nonsensical crap. Somebody thinks Russia is supplying the shaped charge IEDs? They're crazy but it's not so easy.
Iran has close ties to whackos in Iraq, a huge border with Iraq, is harboring Mookie, wants nothing more than an American defeat, is training and supplying other terrorist organizations, has the technology and the capacity, and the stuff has Iran made stamps all over it.
Unsubstantiated? Yeah, it's unsubstantiated that OJ didn't kill Ron and Nicole. It is, however, true that OJ killed Ron and Nicole.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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shrems
golden student
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#8409668 - 05/16/08 02:13 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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C'mon now.
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Baby_Hitler
Anarcho-Technologist
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: zappaisgod]
#8410290 - 05/16/08 05:16 PM (6 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Yeah, it's unsubstantiated that OJ didn't kill Ron and Nicole. It is, however, true that OJ killed Ron and Nicole.
Just like bush lied to get us into a pointless war. I can't prove it, but I know it happened.
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: IRAQ: The elusive Iranian weapons [Re: Disco Cat]
#8411176 - 05/16/08 10:19 PM (6 months, 2 days ago) |
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 This thread has been closed.
Reason:
Sigh. I can't be away for even 24 hours without this crap going on?
Disco, Zap, you're both facing lengthy bans if you can't smarten up and follow the forum rules. Zap, just because you believe your comments are carefully crafted enough to avoid being characterized as direct flames doesn't mean you aren't flaming. Your record is such that technicalities won't save you.
Disco, you don't even have the luxury of technicalities to hide behind - your comments are out and out flames.
This thread is locked to give you both a chance to calm down.
Phred
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